T Nation

First Cycle Help - Critique/Suggestions

Hi Team - First time poster, will start off with some background info;
Height: 175CM
Weight: 180Llbs ish
BF %: 16-18%
Years training: 2 Years, 1 year seriously
Max Lifts -
Bench: 242Llbs - this has since dropped as i recently broke my hand more like 231llbs atm.
Squat: 264Llbs - My core strength lets me down on this one
Deadlift: 343llbs - Beltless and strapless
Seated Shoulder Press: 171Llbs

Goals -
Bench: 308Llbs
Squat: 352Llbs
Deadlift: 440Llbs
Shoulder Press: 187Llbs
Weight: 198Llbs
BF %: 12% or under

Current diet is around 330G Protein 290G Carbs and 40g Fat, also have a multi, fish oil and a zinc supplement daily
Training split is as follows;
Monday - Chest, Tris & Abs + Morning Cardio
Tuesday - Back, Bis & Calfs
Wednesday - off + Morning Cardio
Thursday - Shoulders, Traps & Abs
Friday - Legs & Calfs + Cardio
Saturday - Arms
Sunday - off.

Cycle plans;I am looking at doing a small 8 week cut to bring down BF before i start my cycle.
500mg Test E for 10 weeks. 2 weekly injections at 250mg(Monday morning, Thursday night)
PCT;
2 weeks after last injection will be Nolva for 4 weeks dosed 20/20/10/10 and Clomid 50/50/25/25.
Will also be running A-dex during cycle. This dose has yet to be decided but looking at around 0.5 EOD.

What i want is suggestions on what supplements to run during & after cycle(PCT) and how i should change my diet split to help keep fat gain to a minimum

In terms of swift recovery, Bill Roberts recommends that you don’t exceed 8 weeks of inhibition. Of course man people are find with 10 weeks of inhibition, but personally I like to stick to the safer side.

Also, using HCG during the cycle, beginning no later than on the second week, and 750 iu/week will speed up recovery.

In terms of supplements, generally a lot of guys go with fish oil but that is not mandatory.

With nutrient partitioning being optimal during cycle, you can afford to eat probably 500+ over maintenance and still gain lbm. However, if you just want to gain clean muscle and limit fat gain, I wouldn’t go over 500 over maintenance personally.

If you actually stick to the diet your currently on, then add 30% more protein, and probably 100g of carb split 50-50 peri workout.

Interesting split, otherwise, everything looks great. If you’ve been dieting for a long time, then go ‘on’ and start a mass gaining phase, you will explode. If I were you, I’d start the Test E about 2 weeks before the switch between gaining and dieting, so that when you turn on the carbs, you’ll have a huge anabolic rebound.

Cheers,
-PTD

Cheers for the reply guys - Im liking the sound of starting my cycle 2 weeks before i start my mass gaining phase. Will look into it abit more but it sounds like a go for me.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions on how i should run my cycle?

[quote]ignite wrote:
Cheers for the reply guys - Im liking the sound of starting my cycle 2 weeks before i start my mass gaining phase. Will look into it abit more but it sounds like a go for me.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions on how i should run my cycle?[/quote]

I would personally inject more often and use more test.

750mg of test and split up to ED injects. Or EOD.

The more stable the blood levels the better, but obviously this requires insulin pins (if you want to avoid scar tissue) and more hassle/time.

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]ignite wrote:
Cheers for the reply guys - Im liking the sound of starting my cycle 2 weeks before i start my mass gaining phase. Will look into it abit more but it sounds like a go for me.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions on how i should run my cycle?[/quote]

I would personally inject more often and use more test.

750mg of test and split up to ED injects. Or EOD.

The more stable the blood levels the better, but obviously this requires insulin pins (if you want to avoid scar tissue) and more hassle/time.[/quote]

750mg a week is a lot for a first cycle when 500mg will do plenty good there’s no reason to go that high right away. It would take a long time for scar tissue to build up and that’s even if you pin the same exact spot everytime. Everytime you pin one area it’s unlikely you’ll be going in the same spot everytime.

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]ignite wrote:
Cheers for the reply guys - Im liking the sound of starting my cycle 2 weeks before i start my mass gaining phase. Will look into it abit more but it sounds like a go for me.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions on how i should run my cycle?[/quote]

I would personally inject more often and use more test.

750mg of test and split up to ED injects. Or EOD.

The more stable the blood levels the better, but obviously this requires insulin pins (if you want to avoid scar tissue) and more hassle/time.[/quote]

Why the fuck would you inject Enth EVERY DAY? Where is the necessity in that? Why stop there? Why not twice a day for even MORE stable blood levels. I’ve been watching your posts and you’ve been giving a lot of piss-poor “advice”. You need to take a step back and pipe down, son.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]ignite wrote:
Cheers for the reply guys - Im liking the sound of starting my cycle 2 weeks before i start my mass gaining phase. Will look into it abit more but it sounds like a go for me.

Thanks!

Any other suggestions on how i should run my cycle?[/quote]

I would personally inject more often and use more test.

750mg of test and split up to ED injects. Or EOD.

The more stable the blood levels the better, but obviously this requires insulin pins (if you want to avoid scar tissue) and more hassle/time.[/quote]

Why the fuck would you inject Enth EVERY DAY? Where is the necessity in that? Why stop there? Why not twice a day for even MORE stable blood levels. I’ve been watching your posts and you’ve been giving a lot of piss-poor “advice”. You need to take a step back and pipe down, son.[/quote]

It’s actually on the advice of a poster called “morepain” on here I think. He said he did TRT and injected ED with test E, and he felt much better. No one would disagree that blood levels would be much more stable. It gives more of the feel of test prop. And less bloat.

Bill Roberts recommends injecting more often as well, so I’m not sure what is “piss-poor” advice here.

Bill Roberts this, Bill Roberts that…

the whole point of the enanthate ester is that you don’t have to pin it so often. Can you do it? Yes. Will it have any noticeable benefit? Probably not.

this discussion is getting silly.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Bill Roberts this, Bill Roberts that…

the whole point of the enanthate ester is that you don’t have to pin it so often. Can you do it? Yes. Will it have any noticeable benefit? Probably not.

this discussion is getting silly.[/quote]

But that’s the point… it WILL have noticeable benefit. There are plenty of TRT doctors who think you can shoot some cypionate 1 time a month. Just because something has a longer half life doesn’t mean you don’t stand to benefit by injecting more often.

So, by your take, it is better to go by broscience instead of looking at the opinions and experiences of experts.

That type of logic distills the knowledge in a forum.

no, I didn’t say that. I shall repeat myself: The enanthate ester is designed specifically so you don’t have to pin it every day. That’s not broscience. It’s actual science. From scientists.

I certainly didn’t say that broscience is best, that’s your own take on what I said.

Strawmans like that distill the knowledge in a forum.

Also, I’d like to see you answer the question Toby Queef answered. Why not twice a day hmm?

I bet the first thing he says is “we’ll bill Roberts…” I think the only thing he knows how to do is twist every word that comes out of your mouth

"It’s actually on the advice of a poster called “morepain” on here I think. He said he did TRT and injected ED with test E, and he felt much better. No one would disagree that blood levels would be much more stable. It gives more of the feel of test prop. And less bloat.

Bill Roberts recommends injecting more often as well, so I’m not sure what is “piss-poor” advice here. "

Right there- that’s the definition of bro-science. “Some guy said he did it…I think…and he felt better”.
And you’re going to sit there and accuse others of bro-science?

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Bill Roberts this, Bill Roberts that…

the whole point of the enanthate ester is that you don’t have to pin it so often. Can you do it? Yes. Will it have any noticeable benefit? Probably not.

this discussion is getting silly.[/quote]

But that’s the point… it WILL have noticeable benefit. There are plenty of TRT doctors who think you can shoot some cypionate 1 time a month. Just because something has a longer half life doesn’t mean you don’t stand to benefit by injecting more often.

So, by your take, it is better to go by broscience instead of looking at the opinions and experiences of experts.

That type of logic distills the knowledge in a forum.[/quote]

RDS is right, often times the reason people chose longer esters is so they don’t have to pin as frequently. That’s the reason I opt for them. You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. None. You are fucking clueless. What noticeable effect? Tell me right now what the noticeable effect is.
I remember during one cycle I had to leave for I think 7-8? days where I couldn’t take anything with me- so the day before I left I took twice the dosage I normally would, and then got back on track when I got home. Didn’t have any ‘noticeable effect’ eitherway.

Also, please explain why you shouldn’t inject Enth 2x/daily.

Ahahahaha, fuck this guy. I just went back through and read all of his posts. He made FOUR different threads about doing his first cycle with Tren (which was only 4 months ago) and didn’t even know how to run PCT. Yet now he’s telling people how they should use HCG and “what works best” etc. etc.

Fuck this guy, for real. Nobody should be listening to his ‘advice’.

Just like I predicted- low '20s, with one (maybe two) very basic cycles under his belt.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Ahahahaha, fuck this guy. I just went back through and read all of his posts. He made FOUR different threads about doing his first cycle with Tren (which was only 4 months ago) and didn’t even know how to run PCT. Yet now he’s telling people how they should use HCG and “what works best” etc. etc.

Fuck this guy, for real. Nobody should be listening to his ‘advice’.

Just like I predicted- low '20s, with one (maybe two) very basic cycles under his belt.[/quote]

If you show me where I said soemthing that is wrong and not supported by posts from BR, I’ll be happy to stop posting.

Making a thread on PCT does not mean you don’t know on how to run PCT.

It’s always hilarious the type of hostility that you meet on steroid forums when you prove someone wrong.

Bill FUCKING Roberts said so!!..thats really all im getting outta this thread. I heard a guy injected whey protein once it was great it will be a part of my next cycle

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
no, I didn’t say that. I shall repeat myself: The enanthate ester is designed specifically so you don’t have to pin it every day. That’s not broscience. It’s actual science. From scientists.

I certainly didn’t say that broscience is best, that’s your own take on what I said.

Strawmans like that distill the knowledge in a forum.

Also, I’d like to see you answer the question Toby Queef answered. Why not twice a day hmm?[/quote]

You could do twice a day. But that’s more of a nuisance.

Also, I never said you are required to do every day. I just simply said that it is recommended if you’re looking at optimal quality. Plenty of people inject test e twice week and are fine with it. Personally, I experience less bloat and a much smoother cycle. I think Morepain said that he has been doing TRT for 20 years and he had the same experience (which is where I got the idea from originally). I never said that you HAVE to inject test-e everyday… everyone knows it has a longer half life.

As for me twisting the words of BR… I’m not sure what there is to twist. There’s no twisting.

Naturally, when talking about AAS, there is going to be a lot of anecdotal evidence. I trust BR’s anecdotal evidence because he has vast experience studying these compounds, he instructs clients, and he uses the stuff himself so he’s not just a lab rat. I am less inclined to trust anecdotal evidence for someone who doesn’t have the credentials he has, just the way it is. Until he leads me wrong with advice, I’m inclined to take it.

Rather than putting forth some helpful advice or trying to help people, you just attack what I type.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding, but what I type isn’t really “my” opinion on the matter. I try and learn from those much more experienced. As far as your comment about HCG, what is bad about using HCG EOD (or 3x a week)? KSman recommends it. BR recommends it. Like I’ve shown, nothing I’ve said is harmful… in fact it is helpful.

Really your attitude doesn’t help the community.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Ahahahaha, fuck this guy. I just went back through and read all of his posts. He made FOUR different threads about doing his first cycle with Tren (which was only 4 months ago) and didn’t even know how to run PCT. Yet now he’s telling people how they should use HCG and “what works best” etc. etc.

Fuck this guy, for real. Nobody should be listening to his ‘advice’.

Just like I predicted- low '20s, with one (maybe two) very basic cycles under his belt.[/quote]

Also, lying isn’t a great way to make a point.

I made one thread about my cycle with tren.

The other thread that I made was about front loading it, because I could not find anywhere that talked about it after searching tnation.

What are these “4 threads” that you are talking about?

So the only person you believe is bill Roberts, so out of the hundreds of thousands of posts from people your gonna discredit every single one of them. You have to be the stupidest person I’ve seen. What you type is your opinion, your opinion is only one person knows about steroids. If you want to learn, learn from a collection of sources not just because one person says so.

Your wrong about test e, your wrong about tren, your wrong about everything. Stop trying to make yourself like you know everything there is.

If you want to learn something, learn the fact that the majority of people on this board think your full of shit. So stop taking what everyone says a putting a twist on it and except your wrong.

[quote]BUDs wrote:
So the only person you believe is bill Roberts, so out of the hundreds of thousands of posts from people your gonna discredit every single one of them. You have to be the stupidest person I’ve seen. What you type is your opinion, your opinion is only one person knows about steroids. If you want to learn, learn from a collection of sources not just because one person says so. Your wrong about test e, your wrong about tren, your wrong about everything. Stop trying to make yourself like you know everything there is.

If you want to learn something, learn the fact that the majority of people on this board think your full of shit. So stop taking what everyone says a putting a twist on it and except your wrong. The only thing that has been right about you is how far bill Roberts dick is up your ass[/quote]

Man…

I mentioned the posters “morepain” and “KSman”. Bushidobadboy has some good posts as well. As do a fair few others. Where did I say the only poster I believe is BR.

I don’t get it, what is it ACTUALLY that you are trying to argue here? If it is the information that I am typing, well then I am actually pleased to have a discussion about it. Tell me where I’m wrong, and show me a reputable source for it.

I’m literally lmfao at how mad you are. Do you really hate being wrong this much?