First Cycle - Feedback?

I’m a 38yo lifter considering a first cycle. I’m hoping to get some feedback (and have read enough articles to know you aren’t shy about it) Here are a few considerations.

  1. I work out at a company gym and have a lifting partner. I’m not looking for fast crazy gains that will look too obvious. I can always say I’ve started creatine (which I take anyway) and maybe some AlphaMale, 6-OXO, Carbolin 19, whatever.
  2. I have a single web site that I believe is legit and will only order from there. This is limiting my product choices.
  3. I want to keep my order size small enough to not attract too much attention.
  4. I want to keep sides to a minimum.

purchase
6000mg EQ - $375 (2 cycles, 300mg/wk x10wks)
1000mg DBol - $140 (20mg ed, wks 1-3)
1000mg Asin - $205 (10 mg ed, wks 10-14)
1200mg Nolv - $80 (20mg ed, wks 10-14)

There is extra on everything so I could vary based on what I am experiencing.

EQ - I have a feeling that I’ll hear that the EQ may need to go to 400-600mg/wk even if I don’t want crazy gains since there isn’t any T. Where I’m looking for primarily lean gains and not too quick, I’ve opted out of the T. I’m interested in the EPO inc.

DBol - I figured this could go up or down depending on gains and weight gain. I would like to hear what people think of low dosing (1omg ed) during pct.

Asin & Nolv - I figured I could add some during the cycle if sides seem to warrant.

ok well the dbol alone would shut u down pretty bad so im goin to say that your not goin to find to many people on here approving on this cycle.

Also dbol isent the best for sides, which may or may not be a problem for u. dbol is NOT PCT especially during a 10 week + cycle. from my understanding u have no pct planned which also sucks.

Now if u added 500mg of test e/c/p a week for say 12 weeks, that would be enough to combat the shut down from the other drugs as well as provide excellent gains that arnt too flashy. I am assuming your 1 source will have some sort of test, as most of them have that if anything.

This is what i recomend:
Weeks 1-12 400mg EQ/wk
Weeks 1-12 500mg Test/wk (sust/Prop/Enanth/Cyp, you choose)

Weeks 1-3 50mg Oral Winstrol

Then before u order your test go up to top of the forum and read about how to do a stasis taper.

The Winny instead of dbol, in conjunction with the test and eq will mostly help strength and a little size. The only sides u should experience is slight liver toxicity but at only 3 weeks and 50mg a day shouldent be a problem at all. The dbol would cause bloat and the possiblity of bad acne.

And finally if you would like to add something else, Proviron will make the test more productive as well as add a harder look to your muscles. Run it for the full 12 weeks at 25-50 mg a day.

This is much better then what u posted to accomplish your goals, while being much better for your health then you posted. Hope u listen cause it sounds like u really need to learn something before u jump into some serious compounds like these.

If you don’t want “fast crazy gains” why would you spend over 600 dollars on all that stuff… you can avoid crazy gains by training naturally. When someone says they want to avoid crazy gains I get the impression that you are not currently making gains. If that is the case than AAS is not the remedy. Altering your diet and training approach is a better idea.

For what it’s worth, many people are going to suggest a moderate dose of Test only for 8-12 weeks as a suitable first cycle.

Dave, my PCT plan was the Nolv and Asin for 4 weeks (I put wks 10-14 but meant 11-14 so a week after the last EQ shot). Is the problem the lack of HcG, dosages, length?

As for the possibility of DBol during PCT, that was based on this article: www.steroid.com/Dianabol.php

“Typically, you´d use around 10mgs/day of dbol and combine it with an aggressive Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) course of Nolvadex (and/or Clomid) and HCG. This would give you full androgen replacement from the Dbol and a shot at recovering your natural hormonal levels via the other stuff you are taking. Remember, the 100mg/day dose of dbol in the study we looked at earlier did not suppress Test, LH, or FSH to a degree that would make recovery impossible and certainly not with 1/10th that dose in conjunction with an aggressive PCT.”

If your experiences don’t support this, I’d rather err on the side of safety.

I am making gains but not as quick as I would like or had when I was younger. Where my gym is located at my work, I want to keep my cycle conservative. I don’t want it to be too obvious where it could become an embarassment.

I expected to hear the Test suggestion. I was thinking that the EQ would be a little drier. Maybe I’m overestimating the effects of Test.

My workout is a M-F split. I’ve been using Big Cat’s I.C.E program as my guide.

Thanks for the info. Please keep poking holes in this! I’ll rework the cycle and resubmit as I can.

[quote]ShrugFan wrote:
I’m a 38yo lifter considering a first cycle. I’m hoping to get some feedback (and have read enough articles to know you aren’t shy about it) Here are a few considerations.

  1. I work out at a company gym and have a lifting partner. I’m not looking for fast crazy gains that will look too obvious. I can always say I’ve started creatine (which I take anyway) and maybe some AlphaMale, 6-OXO, Carbolin 19, whatever.
  2. I have a single web site that I believe is legit and will only order from there. This is limiting my product choices.
  3. I want to keep my order size small enough to not attract too much attention.
  4. I want to keep sides to a minimum.

purchase
6000mg EQ - $375 (2 cycles, 300mg/wk x10wks)
1000mg DBol - $140 (20mg ed, wks 1-3)
1000mg Asin - $205 (10 mg ed, wks 10-14)
1200mg Nolv - $80 (20mg ed, wks 10-14)

There is extra on everything so I could vary based on what I am experiencing.

EQ - I have a feeling that I’ll hear that the EQ may need to go to 400-600mg/wk even if I don’t want crazy gains since there isn’t any T. Where I’m looking for primarily lean gains and not too quick, I’ve opted out of the T. I’m interested in the EPO inc.

DBol - I figured this could go up or down depending on gains and weight gain. I would like to hear what people think of low dosing (1omg ed) during pct.

Asin & Nolv - I figured I could add some during the cycle if sides seem to warrant.[/quote]

I understand your thinking, but apart from the fact that you have paid WAAAAY over the odds for the Equipoise at least 9not bothered to look past that) - you are spending alot of money on not wanting many results…

The money you spend can be directly proportionate to the gains you make if you are sensible.

So you want slow, natural(ish) gains? a low dose test over a long period. 3 months of 350mg test cypionate. sorted, plus it will set you back a HELL of a lot less than your planned “stack”.

FYI i bought 10g of eq today, it was a 2 digit number in dollars.

JJ

Dave1188, i think he’d be better off to move the winstrol to the end if anything as it will have the same effect on SHGB as proviron. in reagards to making the end of his cycle more productive and scavenging “free test”

[quote]ShrugFan wrote:
Dave, my PCT plan was the Nolv and Asin for 4 weeks (I put wks 10-14 but meant 11-14 so a week after the last EQ shot). Is the problem the lack of HcG, dosages, length?

As for the possibility of DBol during PCT, that was based on this article: www.steroid.com/Dianabol.php

“Typically, you´d use around 10mgs/day of dbol and combine it with an aggressive Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT) course of Nolvadex (and/or Clomid) and HCG. This would give you full androgen replacement from the Dbol and a shot at recovering your natural hormonal levels via the other stuff you are taking. Remember, the 100mg/day dose of dbol in the study we looked at earlier did not suppress Test, LH, or FSH to a degree that would make recovery impossible and certainly not with 1/10th that dose in conjunction with an aggressive PCT.”[/quote]

No, Dbol is not as suppressive as many others, this IS often forgotten, even by myself until you reminded me! But that doesnt mean it is suitable for PCT - this seems ok in theory, but it isnt used regularly. i wouldnt be attempting something radical like this on my first outing with AAS.[quote]

If your experiences don’t support this, I’d rather err on the side of safety.

I am making gains but not as quick as I would like or had when I was younger. Where my gym is located at my work, I want to keep my cycle conservative. I don’t want it to be too obvious where it could become an embarassment.[/quote]

I understand this need, but you have to decide if you really want this… and to what extent. if you want some milder gains, then it really is ridiculous that you are spending so much money!

[quote]
I expected to hear the Test suggestion. I was thinking that the EQ would be a little drier. Maybe I’m overestimating the effects of Test.[/quote]

Test is cheap and effective, its effects are proportionate to its dose, as is the price! It replaces the endogenous test so libido is increased or replaced at the least, with many other AAS, you get a big drop in libido when endogenous test drops.

Just do one AAS to start with, so you learn how you react to sides/effect. If you use no test, make sure to use proviron at 50-75mg a day to replace the much needed androgen for libido and mood and vitality. Equipoise is a nice choice but at those doses… uurrgghh.[quote]

My workout is a M-F split. I’ve been using Big Cat’s I.C.E program as my guide.[/quote]

I pray to god this is Mon TO fri rather than mon and fri split! lol!

[quote]
Thanks for the info. Please keep poking holes in this! I’ll rework the cycle and resubmit as I can.[/quote]

This whole cycle needs throwing away mate - no arguing.

throw it away and choose the drug of choice first, then the rest can be built around that. Read the stickies as you were advised and come back in a while.

JJ

[quote]ShrugFan wrote:
I’m a 38yo lifter considering a first cycle. I’m hoping to get some feedback (and have read enough articles to know you aren’t shy about it) Here are a few considerations.

  1. I work out at a company gym and have a lifting partner. I’m not looking for fast crazy gains that will look too obvious. I can always say I’ve started creatine (which I take anyway) and maybe some AlphaMale, 6-OXO, Carbolin 19, whatever.
  2. I have a single web site that I believe is legit and will only order from there. This is limiting my product choices.
  3. I want to keep my order size small enough to not attract too much attention.
  4. I want to keep sides to a minimum.

purchase
6000mg EQ - $375 (2 cycles, 300mg/wk x10wks)
1000mg DBol - $140 (20mg ed, wks 1-3)
1000mg Asin - $205 (10 mg ed, wks 10-14)
1200mg Nolv - $80 (20mg ed, wks 10-14)

There is extra on everything so I could vary based on what I am experiencing.

EQ - I have a feeling that I’ll hear that the EQ may need to go to 400-600mg/wk even if I don’t want crazy gains since there isn’t any T. Where I’m looking for primarily lean gains and not too quick, I’ve opted out of the T. I’m interested in the EPO inc.

DBol - I figured this could go up or down depending on gains and weight gain. I would like to hear what people think of low dosing (1omg ed) during pct.

Asin & Nolv - I figured I could add some during the cycle if sides seem to warrant.[/quote]

For your intentions, I’d suggest that you first go to your doc and see if you don’t have low test to begin with. If it’s low, then TRT could be your answer.

Whatever you do, don’t do this cycle. Sorry, but it’s just not very good at all.

I havent read through all the other posts however your cycle that you have proposed looks far from good.

As has been stated 100s of times on here. For the gains you are looking for a moderate dose test cycle at 500mg/wk will get you the gains you are after.

Keep you diet in check and bloat will kept to a minimum and your bf should actually decrease during the cycle.

So basically run 250mg of test 2x/wk with .25 mg of adex EOD added in about week 3.(which could be swapped for asin) Run the taper for pct or standard nolva pct starting two weeks after your last shot.

OK - I’m starting my research on my available T’s for a moderate dose (350-500mg/wk) cycle.

I’m thinking the Win price might be too high as well (1000mg $135). I have had some joint pains and heard Win can make them worse. Actually the joint comfort of some AAS was part of what got me thinking about these.

Any thoughts on Prov 25mg ed w/ the T? I was thinking it might keep me dry and prolong the T.

I have a check up in Aug. and plan to get my levels checked. I have heard that some of the replacements can shut down what you have left going on. It might sound funny but at that rate, I’d want to try to boost my prod naturally. If I’m going to get shut down, it might as well be worth while. Yeah, I’ve got more research to do here too.

JJ, yeah the routine is M thru F (though W is light - cardio & abs and often some extra calf work).

I’ll keep working. Thanks again!

yes to proviron. use 50mg ED.

winny tends to be expensive.

deca is great for joints - and mass too.
(350 Test + 200 Deca? sounds mighty fine)

“I have heard that some of the replacements can shut down what you have left going on. It might sound funny but at that rate, I’d want to try to boost my prod naturally. If I’m going to get shut down, it might as well be worth while.”

What are ‘replacements’?
what do you mean boost prod. naturally?
worthwhile in you may as well get big?!

JJ

By replacements, I meant the HRT treatments. The T patches and whatever else is being prescribed. I’ve heard some can shut you down. I really don’t want to go from low on my own to none except what I get from a patch that I would have to keep permanently on a shaved crotch.

As far as a natural boost I was thing Trib, Eurycoma longifolia, ZMA, etc. I’ve heard people here like Alpha Male but I get a little suspect of proprietary blends. I’m suspect of most sups anyway. I stick to Whey, BCAA’s, creatine, vit/min supps, EFAs, glucosamine (I’m REALLY hoping for some AAS relief!), and liver tabs. I don’t do NO2. I had read articles (maybe D. Barr) saying that it doesn’t work. Then I see post after post of people loving it because of the energy and pumps - but then I think some blends are loaded w/ caff.

I get amazed when I read about people having great results from stuff like Alpha Male, etc. and then reading about people not getting results from some cycles (that probably looked like my original LOL!)

I’ve heard that it is good to go off the creatine while on cycle but bring it back w/ the pct. There is probably something in the noob thread about this but I’d like to hear what to drop or add during a cycle. I was planning to bump up the whey and BCAA’s.

[quote]Game_over wrote:
Dave1188, i think he’d be better off to move the winstrol to the end if anything as it will have the same effect on SHGB as proviron. in reagards to making the end of his cycle more productive and scavenging “free test”[/quote]

i was thinking we would want it for a jump start but yea that would also work.

as for everything else jj has him. lol

[quote]ShrugFan wrote:
I’m a 38yo lifter considering a first cycle. I’m hoping to get some feedback (and have read enough articles to know you aren’t shy about it) Here are a few considerations.

  1. I work out at a company gym and have a lifting partner. I’m not looking for fast crazy gains that will look too obvious. I can always say I’ve started creatine (which I take anyway) and maybe some AlphaMale, 6-OXO, Carbolin 19, whatever.
  2. I have a single web site that I believe is legit and will only order from there. This is limiting my product choices.
  3. I want to keep my order size small enough to not attract too much attention.
  4. I want to keep sides to a minimum.

purchase
6000mg EQ - $375 (2 cycles, 300mg/wk x10wks)
1000mg DBol - $140 (20mg ed, wks 1-3)
1000mg Asin - $205 (10 mg ed, wks 10-14)
1200mg Nolv - $80 (20mg ed, wks 10-14)

There is extra on everything so I could vary based on what I am experiencing.

EQ - I have a feeling that I’ll hear that the EQ may need to go to 400-600mg/wk even if I don’t want crazy gains since there isn’t any T. Where I’m looking for primarily lean gains and not too quick, I’ve opted out of the T. I’m interested in the EPO inc.

DBol - I figured this could go up or down depending on gains and weight gain. I would like to hear what people think of low dosing (1omg ed) during pct.

Asin & Nolv - I figured I could add some during the cycle if sides seem to warrant.[/quote]

Sell something and get test, you only need 250mg a week for 12 weeks with arimidex(.25mg ED) PCT HCG 500iu every other day for 3 weeks. Remind me to sell you something, those prices are high. I don’t know why guys recommend dosages that that higher than that for the first time. At 38 those dosages are safe and will get you results. Always get bloodwork done before starting. EAT enough protein 1 1/2 grams per pound.

Sell something and get test, you only need 250mg a week for 12 weeks with arimidex(.25mg ED) PCT HCG 500iu every other day for 3 weeks. Remind me to sell you something, those prices are high. I don’t know why guys recommend dosages that that higher than that for the first time. At 38 those dosages are safe and will get you results. Always get bloodwork done before starting. EAT enough protein 1 1/2 grams per pound.[/quote]

Are you recommending he use HCG as his PCT protocol?
And 250mg/wk is only slightly above a HRT dose… Why not do an actual cycle, not a half HRT/half cycle sort of thing

250mg is enough to gain on - but if one is not concerned about money or certain sides - you may as well make the most out of being shut down with 500mg - 250mg would be easier to recover from and at your age you probably have 1-3 cycles in you before you need TRT anyway!

JJ

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

Sell something and get test, you only need 250mg a week for 12 weeks with arimidex(.25mg ED) PCT HCG 500iu every other day for 3 weeks. Remind me to sell you something, those prices are high. I don’t know why guys recommend dosages that that higher than that for the first time. At 38 those dosages are safe and will get you results. Always get bloodwork done before starting. EAT enough protein 1 1/2 grams per pound.

Are you recommending he use HCG as his PCT protocol?
And 250mg/wk is only slightly above a HRT dose… Why not do an actual cycle, not a half HRT/half cycle sort of thing[/quote]

Well, For the first time, yes. You can not even get HRT, unless you have low test levels, that is why I recommend bloodwork. This is my protocol, 250mg per week to maintain, 500-750mg. for growth, Competitions 750-1200mg(which I haven’t done since 1991) These are healthy dosages that will get you to my age at 48. I got to 250lbs. off these dosages and won 2 BB shows, when I have a got a good nutritional program and train hard.

[quote]pesty4077 wrote:

Well, For the first time, yes. You can not even get HRT, unless you have low test levels, that is why I recommend bloodwork. This is my protocol, 250mg per week to maintain, 500-750mg. for growth, Competitions 750-1200mg(which I haven’t done since 1991) These are healthy dosages that will get you to my age at 48. I got to 250lbs. off these dosages and won 2 BB shows, when I have a got a good nutritional program and train hard. [/quote]

Fair enough

Shrugfan should chime in as to whether he wishes to maintain or grow.

I have never used HCG before but I am sure it isn’t enough for PCT by itself. I’m not 100% sure it even has a place in PCT

I’m looking to make gains. I go to the gym at my work so I would like to be moderate and not grab too much attention.

I’ve been doing a bit of reading and have been thinking of a 12 wk Cyp cycle. I’m looking at 6000mg for $295. I had been thinking of 400mg 1/wk. W/ the extra ester weight this would be like 333mg Prop. This would leave 1200mg. How well does a vial keep after it’s first use?

I had also been thinking of Proviron 50mg/day to keep me dry. I read that Cyp will stick around for ~15 days but blood levels drop sharply after day 5 so the AI aspect would probably prolong this a little so that 1/wk would probably keep levels pretty even.

Where it is a strong andro receptor binder, it should provide some fat loss as well. Any opinions about this as opposed to or in addition to Adex or someother AI or Anti-E?

I’d also get some Nolv on hand just in case any gyno did start. Also use it as PCT at 40mg ED for 1wk then 20mg ED 3wks. Since there will be 1200mg leftover Cyp, would it be worth combining a small taper w/ a pct plan? Or how detrimental would it be to recovery to go the extra 3 wks to use it up?

Basic lack of knowledge here - as first glance you seem to ‘talk the talk’ - i feel like you are trying to know what you are taking about but miss the mark.

6000mg at that price? Hmm… maybe you could get a better deal elsewhere?

You dont seem to have grasped ester weight - how did you come to that calculation? There is 69mg/100mg of drug with a Cyp ester and 80mg/100mg with Prop.
So if you shoot 400mg of each you would get 276mg Cyp or 320mg with Prop…

A vial keeps fine IMO, fridgidare it if you can.

Proviron to keep you dry huh? What is your bodyfat? In order to look dry i expect you to be at 8% or less. Plus it IME is no match for the powers of test. Maybe with a little letro it may, but you dont need that.

Proviron wont keep blood levels of test any more stable after 5 days… best split your dose into 2 injects a week.

Proviron is not the same type of AI as arimidex and friends. Adex is virtually ALWAYS recommended with an aromatising cycle.

Here it is obvious that while you ARE trying, it is missing the mark. But you are not about to cause serious damage to yourself IMO, so keep reading!

JJ