T Nation

First Cycle, Everything Is Going Wrong


#1

Hello guys

Age: 30
Weight: 76kg
Height: 1.74m
BF:15%

As the topic says I decided to start my first cycle after two years of intensive lifting..My diet is on spot and I am eating 3000-3500 calories daily..
I have gained 10kilos in the last year only with good diet..

So the guy who is watching me and makes the plan is an ex-pro bodybuilder..
We decided to start with dianabol and sustanon 7 week cycle....and here is the plan:

Week 1: Dianabol 10/10/20/20/20/20/20
Week 2: Dianabol 30/30/30/30/30/30/30 Sustanon 250mg
Week 3: Dianabol 40/40/40/40/40/40/40 Sustanon 250mg x2 + proviron eod + arimidex 1mg ed
Week 4: Dianabol 40/40/40/40/40/40/40 Sustanon 250mg x2 + proviron x2 ed + arimidex 1mg ed
Week 5: Dianabol 30/30/30/30/30/30/30 Sustanon 250mg x2 + proviron x2 ed + arimidex 1mg ed
Week 6: Dianabol 10/10/ Sustanon 250mg x2 + proviron x2 ed + arimidex 1mg ed
Week 7: Sustanon 250mg x2 + proviron ed + arimidex 1mg ed

So after the first injection of sustanon which was on Thuesday 2nd week everything started to go wrong..The day after I had terrible pain on my glute, couldn't sleep and couldn't train at all..At the same time I had terrible pain on my bones and muscles and I had fever too which lasted 2 days...Thought and read that this might be the test flu or something like that since me body was trying to get used to what was inserted..So the 2nd injection was on Monday 3rd week..Same symptoms as before..I said to myself I will give one more shot and then try something else if same happens..3rd shot on Friday, symptoms came up even worse with fever higher than before...All those kept me away from the gym and from eating good...
I spoke with my man he said this is not usual and something is wrong with my body that cannot handle extra test and my immune system is crap...Bull@#$%...
So since I couldn't use any more of sustanon and at the same time didn't want to stop the cycle so early I found a way to get Test E and keep on..
I am at the 9th week of the cycle and symptoms came up again after the last Test E shot after the nurse hit a nerve+vein..Pain and fever for 2 days...

So to make a summary since 9th week I have injected 3 sustanon and 9 test e which are way less than what it should be...
Those 9 weeks I have gained only 2 kilos and I don't even know if these are pure muscle or only water...The only positive is the increase of my strength nothing else...

So the point and the question here is that since everything till now is going wrong should I stop now and start PCT..And what PCT should I follow?Is NOLVA only ok?
I don't trust my guy any more..He said I should use Hcg PCT right away along with nolva and clomid but as I have read everywhere hcg should be used while on cycle and non pct and start nolva at least 2 weeks after last injection...At the same time my balls havent shrunk or something and libido is still ok...

Please any advice will be really really helpful...Hoping to make at least a correct PCT...


#2

At 9 weeks, most of the time your feeling on that will be right, HCG won’t be necessary and PCT will go better starting a SERM immediately without it.

Also, starting the Nolvadex immediately will do no harm, but it won’t be effective until testosterone levels have dropped enough to allow recovery. At your dosage level, that would be about a week after the last injection.

As a general rule, unless there’s an urgent date where it’s particularly important to be in top shape, when things go too wrong it’s more efficient to end the cycle rather than continue it. Ending sooner allows starting the next one sooner, where the use will (hopefully!) be more productive.

Nolvadex only is fine. Two methods are 40 mg/day for the first four days to a week, followed by 20 mg/day to finish for example a 4 week course; or my preferred method, three doses of 40 mg on Day 1, followed afterwards by 20 mg/day.


#3

First of all thanks for the quick reply…
What I also would like to ask is if I have to continue taking arimidex till I start nolva?
Forgot to mention that I was taking 0,5mg of arimidex ed from week 5 to 9 and not 1mg…2nd to 4th week I was 2 days on 2 days off of 1mg of arimidex with no symptoms of gyno or anything

And the test plan that I followed with all those problems was:

Week 2: 1 Sustanon 250mg
Week 3: 2 Sustanon 250mg
Week 4: 1 Test E of 250mg
Week 5: 1 Test E of 250mg
Week 6: 2 Test E of 250mg (500mg)
Week 7: 2 Test E of 250mg (500mg)
Week 8: 1 Test E of 250mg
Week 9: 2 Test E of 250mg (500mg)

So do you think the cycle is so messed up from the beginning that didn’t help me gain any muscle or something else is wrong?

As I see in the stickies the best beginner plan is to go with Test E from week 1 to 12 with 2 injections every week…

That sustanon ruined everything… :frowning: Along with the ex-pro who made the plan for me…


#4

Arimidex can be discontinued at the same time as the last testosterone injection.

The cycle was ridiculously planned.

To use testosterone effectively at 500 mg/week as two injections of 250 mg, it should be frontloaded with the first injection being about 600 mg, and 250 mg twice per week thereafter. Not this strange up and down plan. You never achieved the levels associated with ongoing 500 mg/week use.

(With ongoing use, when injecting 250 mg, you have about another 350 mg built up in your system from previous injections of 250 mg twice per week. For none of your injections would you have had this much in the system.)


#5

I noticed your amount of adex was pretty high, even 0.5mg is a fair bit to be taking if you haven’t increased it from a lower dose to stop early gyno symptoms. Might not be the cause of your troubles but 0.5 made me feel like shit, with aches pains and flu like symptoms.


#6

that’s a lot of d bol for your first cycle. too much Dbol can mess with your stomach and give you aches.
The test should be higher.
The Adex is WAAY too much. I bet anything anything that’s it. It will give you hot flashes before your body gets used to it. cut it down to .5 mg EOD. it can also make you depressed.
your bodybuilder friend is RETARDED. the first week should include test. the dbol kickstart shouldn’t be taken by itself. the whole point of a dbol kickstart is to use it with the test to see results before the test kicks in.
250 mg shouldn’t give you test flu, that’s ridiculous.

you won’t need a pct with 1 mg on adex. take nolva for mood if you need it.
also listen to bill roberts. he knows his stuff.


#7

also proviron shouldn’t be used your first cycle. it will make you very horny and you won’t understand why it’s happening.


#8

I’m sure you obviously got no pre cycle bloodwork and haven’t got bloodwork since?

To be blunt your cycle is total shit. 1mg of adex ed? I bet you tanked your E2 levels.

Your test/sustanon w/e dosage is all fucked up too. 250 is a TRT dose, not sure why you alternate from 250 to 500 to 250 again. Also don’t understand the tapering up and down all over the place of your dbol dosage.

Why does everyone all of a sudden have an “ex pro bodybuilder” friend who suggests these horrible cycles?

Let test clear your system. Wait 2 weeks from last injection and start your PCT and don’t run steroids until you actually read up on them and develop YOUR OWN cycle.


#9

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
also proviron shouldn’t be used your first cycle. it will make you very horny and you won’t understand why it’s happening. [/quote]

lol, your posts are always terrible.


#10

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
also proviron shouldn’t be used your first cycle. it will make you very horny and you won’t understand why it’s happening. [/quote]

lol, your posts are always terrible.[/quote]

I second that.


#11

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
also proviron shouldn’t be used your first cycle. it will make you very horny and you won’t understand why it’s happening. [/quote]

lol, your posts are always terrible.[/quote]

I second that.
[/quote]

I just want to know what he’s smoking.


#12

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
also proviron shouldn’t be used your first cycle. it will make you very horny and you won’t understand why it’s happening. [/quote]

lol, your posts are always terrible.[/quote]

I second that.
[/quote]

I just want to know what he’s smoking.[/quote]

that’s not even the worst thing he said!

“you don’t need PCT because you used adex, but you can use nolva for mood if you want”

WTF


#13

hey man, screw you. that was a perfectly valid point.


#14

he won’t need to PCT on 250 mg test. the dbol may hav shut down his htpa. but it will restore natrually by itself.
The adex stores in his body will be soo massive that they will last. adex is competitive, not suicidal. but he took way too much.
if his mood goes to to shit then yes nolvadex will help with the flow of estrogen away from the prefrontal lobe of the brain. It will thus increase seratonin flow.

As for proviron. You don’t need that at your first cycle. It is prescribed by doctors for erectile dysfunction. Further it’s anti estrogenic effects would aid in the lack of PCT.

My posts are solid, you gym rats.


#15

scratch that, on his first cycle there’s no way he’d have shut down his htpa that fast.


#16

WTF ever happened to SIMPLE first cycles (simple intermediate guy cycles as well)!!! Where are guys getting this fucked up, up and down, multi-compound shit? Is this what Gym-Bro advice has come to?

S/F

Al


#17

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
he won’t need to PCT on 250 mg test. the dbol may hav shut down his htpa. but it will restore natrually by itself.
The adex stores in his body will be soo massive that they will last. adex is competitive, not suicidal. but he took way too much.
if his mood goes to to shit then yes nolvadex will help with the flow of estrogen away from the prefrontal lobe of the brain. It will thus increase seratonin flow.

As for proviron. You don’t need that at your first cycle. It is prescribed by doctors for erectile dysfunction. Further it’s anti estrogenic effects would aid in the lack of PCT.

My posts are solid, you gym rats. [/quote]

Please for the love of god tell me you’re not serious.


#18

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
he won’t need to PCT on 250 mg test. the dbol may hav shut down his htpa. but it will restore natrually by itself.
The adex stores in his body will be soo massive that they will last. adex is competitive, not suicidal. but he took way too much.
if his mood goes to to shit then yes nolvadex will help with the flow of estrogen away from the prefrontal lobe of the brain. It will thus increase seratonin flow.

As for proviron. You don’t need that at your first cycle. It is prescribed by doctors for erectile dysfunction. Further it’s anti estrogenic effects would aid in the lack of PCT.

My posts are solid, you gym rats. [/quote]

you are a fucking moron, and need to quit giving any advice that affects other people’s health.

the max testosterone a healthy male would produce a week is about 70 mg…250 mg will most certainly suppress the HPTA.

i really wish the Mods would step in and ban people like this…


#19

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
he won’t need to PCT on 250 mg test. the dbol may hav shut down his htpa. but it will restore natrually by itself.
The adex stores in his body will be soo massive that they will last. adex is competitive, not suicidal. but he took way too much.
if his mood goes to to shit then yes nolvadex will help with the flow of estrogen away from the prefrontal lobe of the brain. It will thus increase seratonin flow.

As for proviron. You don’t need that at your first cycle. It is prescribed by doctors for erectile dysfunction. Further it’s anti estrogenic effects would aid in the lack of PCT.

My posts are solid, you gym rats. [/quote]

Gtfo of here


#20

[quote]nooberific wrote:
I’m sure you obviously got no pre cycle bloodwork and haven’t got bloodwork since?

To be blunt your cycle is total shit. 1mg of adex ed? I bet you tanked your E2 levels.

Your test/sustanon w/e dosage is all fucked up too. 250 is a TRT dose, not sure why you alternate from 250 to 500 to 250 again. Also don’t understand the tapering up and down all over the place of your dbol dosage.

Why does everyone all of a sudden have an “ex pro bodybuilder” friend who suggests these horrible cycles?

Let test clear your system. Wait 2 weeks from last injection and start your PCT and don’t run steroids until you actually read up on them and develop YOUR OWN cycle.[/quote]

Well I had bloodwork tests only before cycle and only my SGOT levels where a bit high but my liver in general was ok…
The reasons for alternations on test was the pain and fever of sustanon…Happened 3 times then I switched to test e but I was on fever for a week so I didn’t risk to inject test e earlier…I was ready to quit but I said I 'll give it a shot with test e (my guy said that test e is crap only sustanon will do the job and he advised me to start with 1 injection every week to see how it will go with the new test)
Same for dianabol…He made the plan…Wish I had came earlier to this site…So many good advise and information from people that know what they are doing…