T Nation

First Cycle Comments/Suggestions


#1

Hi all,

Requesting advice if it is ok to use Anavar 10mg a day without PCT? I can other orals, but I can't access any injectibles.

Reason for using, only after strength and not much size increase. Been training hard and natural since age 15. Current age is 23.

Bodyweight jumped from 165 to 190 in a span of one year all natural.

Also due, to resting after my knee surgery.

My Stats as of last year:
@175lbs
Height 5'9"
DL 440lbs
Squat 420lbs
Bench 286lbs

I've been advised on this same forum by a kind forum poster who knows a lot more than me to do:

"
OK - if i assume that yuou can't get oils, dont have any desire for any other drug other than var and will only ever use var with no convincing otherwise... then i would say this:

10mg of Var is very very low and you are not likely to notice much in the way of ANTHING from this dose.
All AAS can be dosed at an amount that is non-suppressive, but with all of them, this amount is so low - their effects are negligible too.
For ANY steroid to really give results, suppression of the HPTA is a necessary evil i'm afraid, the best course of action is to accept this and plan for recovery post cycle and control of sides while on cycle - with var, sides on cycle are minimal.

A dose between 40mg(low) and 100mg (high) is best.. with the optimal range around 60-80mg a day.
This dose will help you to increase strength quite well, noticeably so. It will be anabolic to a slight degree.. not so much that you will build slabs of muscle, but so that you look tighter, fitter and generally slightly better.

As for maintaining lean mass - sure IF you consider that it is anabolic and compared to taking noting it is much preferred.. but if you are intending to do a strict calorie controlled diet, then dont expect such a low dose of AAS (a mild one at that) to do much to save any muscle (no offence but you dont look like you have much to warrant a diet anyway) :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

It is a good drug, and many are happy with the results, just make sure you are expecting the right kind of results.

Little muscle gain, good strength, no water and no fat gains, low androgen, possible libido jumps, will shut down natural production of test and you will need to use a SERM (say, tamoxifen or clomiphene) for approx 2-4 weeks afterwards.. if tamoxifen then 40mg a day for 7 days then 20mg a day for another 14-21 days.
If clomid then 150mg/day for 10 days then 50mg a day for 20 days..

"

I'm willing to try this out really soon. But the goods will be available late june.

Anyway, If in case I was able to find 8amps of Susta, 8amps of Deca, and 240pcs of dbol 10mg tabs, how would you suggest I cycle it?

With Regards to PCT, I will have Arimidex 50-100tabs 1g tabs, Nolva 100tabs 20mg/tab ready.

I plan to run the PCT
tamoxifen then 40mg a day for 7 days then 20mg a day for another 14-21 days.

For the Arimidex, I yet have to figure it out, since I naturally have High Estrogen, and might run this on .25mg doses indefinitely (If needed).

Any useful advice is very much welcome :slight_smile:

My goals preferably are for Strength, and to gain a harder look if possible.


#2

bump


#3

up


#4

hello?


#5

Don’t do it just train harder


#6

dont do anything until the rest of the goods are delivered ,10mg daily of var is a waste of time

youd probably get more gains from an extra cheeseburger every day


#7

I don’t want to gain much, just mostly strength… Prolly make 200lbs, and leaner.


#8

[quote]theHUSS wrote:
I don’t want to gain much, just mostly strength… Prolly make 200lbs, and leaner.[/quote]

You are a perfect candidate for FOOD. Eat more until you get to 210-215. Then clean up your diet and slowly drop your carb intake over a period of weeks until you get down to 200.


#9

Why do you not have access to injectables? Are you in Australia?


#10

@BONEZ

I already eat A LOT, a bit of background, as Brook kind of deduced, no matter how lean I am, My love handles are still there… Kind of implying I naturally have high estrogen…

If I eat anymore, I will just look fat, this is how my body works, I’ve known it all this time. I can play in 75kg, 82.5kg or 90kg when I need to. Ergo, I know how to lose the fat quick *but my love handles stay. I also know how to bulk pretty clean, but as I’ve said, estro is just naturally high.

I’m not new in this iron game, i just don’t grow at a fast rate. I always have a calorie surplus. What I need to do is speed up the muscle building to work with the calorie surplus.

I hope to get more advice from you kind sir. Appreciate the reply. Also, kindly check my picture from two years ago if you have time, its me at 165lbs…


#11

@DOHCrazy, the situation is what it is, why I can’t access them is out of my control…


#12

[quote]theHUSS wrote:
@BONEZ

I already eat A LOT, a bit of background, as Brook kind of deduced, no matter how lean I am, My love handles are still there… Kind of implying I naturally have high estrogen…

If I eat anymore, I will just look fat, this is how my body works, I’ve known it all this time. I can play in 75kg, 82.5kg or 90kg when I need to. Ergo, I know how to lose the fat quick *but my love handles stay. I also know how to bulk pretty clean, but as I’ve said, estro is just naturally high.

I’m not new in this iron game, i just don’t grow at a fast rate. I always have a calorie surplus. What I need to do is speed up the muscle building to work with the calorie surplus.

I hope to get more advice from you kind sir. Appreciate the reply. Also, kindly check my picture from two years ago if you have time, its me at 165lbs…
[/quote]

I didn’t recommend food because I think you are trying to take a short cut.

It is your desire for a “little bit of mass, strength etc.” that made me recommend food. I don’t think someone at your level of development NEEDS AAS to gain only ten pounds of muscle but if that’s what you want to do it’s your decision of course.

10mg of anavar a day is a complete waste of money. 50mg/d minimum is what i’d recommend. 10 pounds of muscle may be hard to come by from var alone especially since you say that you have a hard time gaining muscle in the first place. My experience with var is that I gain a decent amount of muscle but lose much more bodyfat, in a calorie surplus (not a huge surplus though).

Var + Dbol and you will easily gain 10 pounds if you are eating a surplus. That is if you can’t get any more injectables than what you have. You dont have enough injectables for a cycle.


#13

[quote]theHUSS wrote:
@DOHCrazy, the situation is what it is, why I can’t access them is out of my control…

[/quote]

That isn’t a good enough reason for me. I used to feel the same way you did. I used that time of not having a source to do more research. While I did that research, sources began to fall into my lap.

I doubt your reason is any good.

Sorry if I sound rude, you just seem to be wanting to impatiently rush into this without much planning.


#14

Maybe he can’t access because his wife/gf will see mail.


#15

[quote]winkroar3 wrote:
Maybe he can’t access because his wife/gf will see mail.[/quote]

Mail them to a friend or POBox, problem solved.

Next.


#16

[quote]theHUSS wrote:
@BONEZ

I already eat A LOT, a bit of background, as Brook kind of deduced, no matter how lean I am, My love handles are still there… Kind of implying I naturally have high estrogen…

If I eat anymore, I will just look fat, this is how my body works, I’ve known it all this time. I can play in 75kg, 82.5kg or 90kg when I need to. Ergo, I know how to lose the fat quick *but my love handles stay. I also know how to bulk pretty clean, but as I’ve said, estro is just naturally high.

I’m not new in this iron game, i just don’t grow at a fast rate. I always have a calorie surplus. What I need to do is speed up the muscle building to work with the calorie surplus.

I hope to get more advice from you kind sir. Appreciate the reply. Also, kindly check my picture from two years ago if you have time, its me at 165lbs…
[/quote]

Well - on this site, as well as many other BB/AAS forums, people forget what natural training is like. They forget that without AAS, an endless increase in calories does not build more muscle, it simply increases fat!
If you are training great, resting enough, have a good diet and think all you need to do is add calories to add a few lbs… you are very wrong.

There comes a point - soon after newbie gains - and assuming a committed and consistent training/eating regime - when one will encounter the first real evidence of ‘natural limit’. It is of course not natural limit, but it is when gains really begin to halt due to the progresses made and the difficulty to get the body to increase metabolic tissue storage, without the natural catabolic reaction TO said metabolic tissue. It is a constant losing battle to build muscle, and as a trainer i see this regularly.

Even those who DO use anabolics, and seem to have flawless diets often don’t look that great! There are tons here like that. They look like they trained for a few years naturally… but that’s it… BECAUSE IT IS SO FUCKING HARD!

It takes an obscene amount of time to build a great physique with AAS… and without, it literally takes nothing less than a lifetime (of course there are the 5% who are in great shape by 20, but they are the exception rather than the rule).

I totally understand that increasing Protein beyond 1g/lb for a natural traineee is pointless, that eating 5000kcals without some T3 is a mistake, and that all it takes is a slight caloric surplus along with decent supplementation (Macronutrient, Creatine, Ribose, HMB, Vits and Mins… the basics), rest and constantly adaptive training provided over a NUMBER OF YEARS. Thats all.
Add in AAS/PED and you will get bigger faster, but with no less effort if you want to maximise the results.

If you want to be 200lbs and are 5’10"… then AAS will allow this to come faster… but it is nowhere near beyond the means of a committed man, without drugs.

B


#17

@DOHCrazy

I’m still planning, wouldn’t want to rush it :slight_smile:

You’re right, sources might come my way, but so far, none yet :slight_smile:

@winkroar3

Don’t have a wife yet haha, just can’t seem to get any oils

@Brook

When I started at 15, training wasn’t too good (as with most newbies), and diet was no good either.

I fixed this a bit and somehow from 148lbs got to 155 after some time… But then my sleep due to school and such wasn’t too good, so this had to be fixed.

Then at 16, got injured had to lay off the weights first, do some rehab. (So this was a major setback)

Fast forward to 18, I met a powerlifter who trained me, he had the proper know-how, but this time, my former diet wasn’t good enough for the new challenging training, so I had to fix that and suddenly got me to a stable 165lbs (lean but with love handles still, I also think I have slight gyno from puberty).

Eversince, I’ve been training and eating right, gaining strength while trying to maintain weight. But it comes to a point that I can’t get stronger unless I get any heavier.

So I moved up a weight class, gained some more strength but then I noticed I got fatter, so something was wrong with my diet, and my training can’t be blamed since It was designed by a few experts from where I’m from (It’s a four times a week training designed for powerlifting). I guess my sleep could also be blamed back then , but now it’s fixed since I’m done with studying…

I noticed, since I stopped school, I’ve been sleeping better and growing better. 165-175 was pretty much all I had for a span of two years. Then after school I am now at 190 (+/-)5lbs.

Though I don’t want to say this nor admit it, I guess this is what my genetics will permit. My supplementation is complete (Whey, Creatine, Glutamine, ZMA, Tribulus, Longjack, Vitamins and Minerals). I also Avoid carbs that cause insulin spikes (aka make me sluggish), and I eat 6 times a day with clean foods, lots of nuts along the whey etc.

At 8 years all in all of natural training, starting from a totally weak body (asthma, 3 knee injuries), I am now a lot healthier and stronger than what God would permit at 190lbs. (though I don’t know what my lifts are currently since I haven’t maxed out since the surgery last year).

Basing from my stats last year:

@175lbs
Height 5’9"
DL 440lbs
Squat 420lbs
Bench 286lbs

All I need now is a way to exceed my limits, and as Brook said IT IS REALLY SO FUCKING HARD with or without AAS. All I’m asking is from this forum is a bit of help on how to blow past my limits. Because if dedication is in question, I don’t think it is to blame.

I’ve been trained by the greats of my country (won’t say where though), and it does take them 20 years or so to be at the level they’re at now (training naturally) with or without great genetics.

All I’m looking for is a boost, so i can also heal and recover faster… while training just as hard or even harder (smarter?).

Kind Regards to all. Appreciate your feedback very much.


#18

“…I’ve been trained by the greats of my country (won’t say where though), and it does take them 20 years or so to be at the level they’re at now (training naturally) with or without great genetics…”

And yet you say you have trained for 8 years, but this wasn’t really effective until 18-19 (15-19 was the learning curve which IMO isn’t included) - so call that 4 years.

Anyhow, i don’t see why you shouldn’t try AAS really. But going back to your first post asking whether you can use 10mg of var a day… and cannot get orals…

Either do it or don’t… don’t try to do Steroids without committing, that is more likely to bring you nothing or fuck you up.
You couldn’t even come here with enough info inside your skull from the ‘greats of your country’ (this is ridiculous, even you must admit it was a mistake writing this! I’ll be surprised if you don’t get laughed off the site!) to ask if a cycle of 60mg var would be any good! (it wouldn’t, but is a damn sight better than 10mg).

Not only that but you are making the argument to use AAS - yet you have no access! What are you talking about?

BTW… if you can get real Oxandrolone, then trust me that Testosterone, Nandrolone, Primobolan, Winstrol and Anadrol are all just around the corner.

Go away and read up on what does what, decide what you can get (how do you know if you don’t try? I never understood the ozzies and kiwis coming here saying they can’t get anything at 16, but had never tried…) and what you need for your goals.

Before that it is all academic isn’t it.


#19

@Brook

I get your point about the learning curve, and yes that leaves me with at least four decent years.

"
You couldn’t even come here with enough info inside your skull from the ‘greats of your country’ (this is ridiculous, even you must admit it was a mistake writing this! I’ll be surprised if you don’t get laughed off the site!) to ask if a cycle of 60mg var would be any good! (it wouldn’t, but is a damn sight better than 10mg)."

I got no reaction to this, but the greats of my country don’t use any AAS at all, thus I can’t get any help from them about AAS…

As an update, btw, I can get sustanon decabol dbol anavar, as confirmed by a would-be supplier just 15mins ago.

I accept the fact that I have to go away and do some reading, and I’ve done that in a very scholarly manner, maybe I just need the reassurance from everyone’s practical experience-that is why I ask such questions.

I understand, either do it or don’t, and I won’t know unless I try.

Greatly appreciate your time.

-theHUSS


#20

Huss,

Im not going to pretend like I know anything about steroids or your exact situation, however, just by reading your post and your “arguments” to support your position on needing to take a cycle I would say it sounds like you are more worried about staying lean and losing your love handles while putting on some strength/size to get to a place more of your liking.

My opinion, which may indeed be wrong, but just throwing it out there…

Sounds like you are a bit insulin resistant-love handles, also, considering your height, weight, and age I’d say you just need to spend a few more years focusing on clean bulk periods and heavy weight/high volume training to get some size on your frame and don’t sweat the love handles so much. 200lbs shouldn’t be that hard to get to at your height.

Just throwing it out there bro, but by all means dude, it is your decision. But as a 26 year old being 5’11 and 235 with some love handles myself, your goals aren’t that lofty, patience, consistancy and picking one goal at a time sounds like an easy fix to your situation.

If you are training with these “greats” of your country, and they are natural, sounds like you have all the resources you need to reach your goals.

I too started training at an early age, but long periods away from the gym, be it lack of discipline or occurences throughout day to day life is by no means consistant training it helps to have the muscle memory but thats about it, I am finally at a place where I can make it a focal point in my life and I have found a humble attitude will get you a lot further/stronger than ego lifting. That has been my experience, maybe not true for you, but it takes less thought to consider it than the alternative you are giving yourself.

Good luck bro.