T Nation

First Cycle at 40


#1

I have been lifting natural for the past 10 or so years. I am 6ft4 and currently weigh around 210. Im not sure what my current bf% is, prolly somewhere around 18-20%. I hit my peak at around age 32-33, I was at around 6-8%bf while still having my PR on bench, squat and DL. Since that time I have gained some weight and have seemed to hit a plateau.I have recently got my hands on a cycle of Test-E and have read a lot and done some basic research. My goals are to gain some lean mass while losing some nagging bodyfat that just wont seem to go away over the past few years. Here is my current plan.

W 1-10 Test E 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex or Letrozole 0.25mg EOD
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d
Continuous use of Nioxin Shampoo

Here are a few questions I still have..
1. Is there any pros\cons to using Adex over Letro for AI?
2. Do I need something for recovery on such a cycle as this?
3. If I do run Letro on cycle, will the PCT dose of Nolva be sufficient to prevent estrogen rebound?
4. I am attempting to run this cycle without my wife finding out, I have a friends house where I can inject etc, what are the chances of pulling that off? :wink:
5. Since we are approaching summer and Im trying to lean out, would it make more sense to wait and start this cycle in the fall?
**Any other recommendations changes are greatly appreciated.


#2

first I wouldn’t take letrizole. It’s mainly used for competitions to dry you out. It is notorious for destroying your cholesterol. as a man above 40 you don’t want to mess with that. further it also destroys your libido, even if you are mega amounts of testosterone.
Adex is competitive. If you want a better PCt use exemestane instead which is a suicidal AI. this comes at the price of a bit of increased aggression.

secondly, don’t keep stuff from your wife man, come on.


#3

also just saw 250 mg e3D. I first read it as weekly for some reason. what is that… 580 ish mg a week?
your wife will notice.


#4

[quote]Striker100 wrote:
I have been lifting natural for the past 10 or so years. I am 6ft4 and currently weigh around 210. Im not sure what my current bf% is, prolly somewhere around 18-20%. I hit my peak at around age 32-33, I was at around 6-8%bf while still having my PR on bench, squat and DL. Since that time I have gained some weight and have seemed to hit a plateau.I have recently got my hands on a cycle of Test-E and have read a lot and done some basic research. My goals are to gain some lean mass while losing some nagging bodyfat that just wont seem to go away over the past few years. Here is my current plan.

W 1-10 Test E 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex or Letrozole 0.25mg EOD
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d
Continuous use of Nioxin Shampoo

Here are a few questions I still have…

  1. Is there any pros\cons to using Adex over Letro for AI?

  2. Do I need something for recovery on such a cycle as this?

  3. If I do run Letro on cycle, will the PCT dose of Nolva be sufficient to prevent estrogen rebound?

  4. I am attempting to run this cycle without my wife finding out, I have a friends house where I can inject etc, what are the chances of pulling that off? :wink:

  5. Since we are approaching summer and Im trying to lean out, would it make more sense to wait and start this cycle in the fall?
    **Any other recommendations changes are greatly appreciated.[/quote]

  6. Letro is a little trickier to dose than adex. Lots of guys really have to experiment with it to get it right. Adex on the other hand can be started eod at .25 then taper up or down if needed.

  7. Recovery? Yes you will need to PCT, that is why you have nolva on your cycle.

  8. Although Nolva increase E2 it’s pretty weak and I don’t think you will have much to worry about. That being said anything can happen with your body, hell you might take 1 AI and tank your E2 so bad you won’t be able to function.

  9. As long as she doesn’t really know about gaining muscle and weight this is very easy to do. You will have to explain some pain in your injection sites b/c they are virgin but I don’t think there’s a real problem with that. When I pinned delts I told my girl my delts hurt because of heavy lifting.

Apart from that, make sure you run your AI up to your PCT and start your PCT 2 weeks after your last test shot. Your Nolva dosage seems fine but I would probably run a 40mg ed for 2 weeks and 20mg ed for the last 2 weeks.


#5

Altering your body fat and leaning out is going to depend on diet mostly and if you know how to cardio correctly.

I’ve found the best way to get rid of stubborn fat is besides having a solid diet doing 20-30mins of cardio after working out. Cardio consisting of walking to a point where your HR is elevated but not too elevated where you start eating muscle. Scientific way to find this out is using % of HR and bla bla bla… I simply walk on treadmill at a pace where I feel my heart speeding up but I can still talk without losing my breath.


#6
  1. Letro is a little trickier to dose than adex. Lots of guys really have to experiment with it to get it right. Adex on the other hand can be started eod at .25 then taper up or down if needed.

  2. Recovery? Yes you will need to PCT, that is why you have nolva on your cycle.

  3. Although Nolva increase E2 it’s pretty weak and I don’t think you will have much to worry about. That being said anything can happen with your body, hell you might take 1 AI and tank your E2 so bad you won’t be able to function.

  4. As long as she doesn’t really know about gaining muscle and weight this is very easy to do. You will have to explain some pain in your injection sites b/c they are virgin but I don’t think there’s a real problem with that. When I pinned delts I told my girl my delts hurt because of heavy lifting.

Apart from that, make sure you run your AI up to your PCT and start your PCT 2 weeks after your last test shot. Your Nolva dosage seems fine but I would probably run a 40mg ed for 2 weeks and 20mg ed for the last 2 weeks.[/quote]

Thanks a lot Noob, that’s exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. As for #2, when I say recovery, I mean will the Test-E cycle shut me down and when I come off will I need something to kick start my natural test again. Will Nolva be sufficient for that? Im not extremely worried about my wife finding out, she is just hypersensitive and doesn’t understand stuff like this. She just thinks of needles and drugs etc. But if she starts asking too many ?s Id just come clean. My only other real concern is aggression, Im a pretty laid back guy but I do have outburst every now and then, Im under some stress at work and have 4 kids. Is the aggression from Test so bad that you cant control it or is it something that you just have to really focus on? Other than that Im about ready to start the cycle. Im just waiting on the Adex and Nolva to have everything on hand.


#7

Yes, Nolva will be enough to kickstart your natural production. I’d advise to get bloodwork done before you cycle, during cycle and a week or two after your last nolva pill. Some may find this extreme but you really can’t put a price on health/hormone. If you mess something up it will be much more expensive.

Personally I noticed test makes me a little more aggressive but nothing I can’t control. I have my outbursts at times, like if something really annoys me I may lash out with words but never physically. In every person it is different.


#8

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
first I wouldn’t take letrizole. It’s mainly used for competitions to dry you out. It is notorious for destroying your cholesterol. as a man above 40 you don’t want to mess with that. further it also destroys your libido, even if you are mega amounts of testosterone.
Adex is competitive. If you want a better PCt use exemestane instead which is a suicidal AI. this comes at the price of a bit of increased aggression.
[/quote]

what are you talking about?


#9

The kid needs to be banned. Some of the stuff he is posting is pretty ridiculous/dangerous.


#10

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
first I wouldn’t take letrizole. It’s mainly used for competitions to dry you out. It is notorious for destroying your cholesterol. as a man above 40 you don’t want to mess with that. further it also destroys your libido, even if you are mega amounts of testosterone.
Adex is competitive. If you want a better PCt use exemestane instead which is a suicidal AI. this comes at the price of a bit of increased aggression.
[/quote]

what are you talking about?[/quote]


#11

[quote]greenseedless wrote:
first I wouldn’t take letrizole. It’s mainly used for competitions to dry you out. It is notorious for destroying your cholesterol. as a man above 40 you don’t want to mess with that. further it also destroys your libido, even if you are mega amounts of testosterone.
Adex is competitive. If you want a better PCt use exemestane instead which is a suicidal AI. this comes at the price of a bit of increased aggression.

secondly, don’t keep stuff from your wife man, come on. [/quote]

this is brilliant.

Firstly, letro doesn’t destroy your libido. You’re an idiot spouting nonsense.

Secondly, aromasin increasing aggression is total bullshit also. You’re a moron, spouting bullshit.

I hate you. The good news is that idiots like you usually get bored and fuck off pretty soon.


#12

The scary and sad part is newbies like myself to a certain extent, log in here and read this nonsense but don’t have enough experience to know he is spouting total BS. I knew right off when he said letro would cause increased aggression that I would ignore the post and hope someone with real experience would chime in. Thankfully Noob did just that. The mods here should ban these people immediately when they post crap like this. Posting info that cause someone to really screw themselves over is not cool at all…at all.


#13

[quote]Striker100 wrote:
The scary and sad part is newbies like myself to a certain extent, log in here and read this nonsense but don’t have enough experience to know he is spouting total BS. I knew right off when he said letro would cause increased aggression that I would ignore the post and hope someone with real experience would chime in. Thankfully Noob did just that. The mods here should ban these people immediately when they post crap like this. Posting info that cause someone to really screw themselves over is not cool at all…at all.[/quote]

yup, that’s why we’re being dicks about it.

like i’ve said before, there’s no accountability if i or anyone else on the internet gives shit advice and recipient gets health issues.

this is partially why i’m so obsessive about posting numerous links to studies so that people can look at the data themselves, and be somewhat informed.


#14

One more ? for you guys experienced with Test-E. Is 29g 1/2in needles sufficient for Quad injections with Test? Since I will be injecting myself I think the quad is the best option but Im not sure if 1/2 will be the correct size for that. Im about to order the Adex, Nolva and needles so I just want to make sure Im on the right path here.


#15

[quote]Striker100 wrote:
One more ? for you guys experienced with Test-E. Is 29g 1/2in needles sufficient for Quad injections with Test? Since I will be injecting myself I think the quad is the best option but Im not sure if 1/2 will be the correct size for that. Im about to order the Adex, Nolva and needles so I just want to make sure Im on the right path here. [/quote]

How lean are you? Some guys can pin quads with slin pins.

I like to pin my delts are use a 23g 1" needle. Then again I was also pinning my delts with 21g 1.5" needles lol so I may not be the best person to give advice as my pain threshold is kind of not normal.


#16

Im 6’4 and around 210 so Im pretty lean. Most of my unwanted fat is in my waist line. Im pretty sure I could get by with 1/2in for quads but I think to be on the conservative side, Ill go with 23g 1in pins. My threshold for pain is pretty high as well. In a way I kind of enjoy minor pain to a certain extent.


#17

I suggest that you start with glutes. If you’re sensitive to the gear, it’s the PIP(post injection pain) that you have to be worried about.


#18

Alright, I have everything on hand to begin this cycle but Im a little confused on proper dosing. The Test E is 250mg and as my post states I was planning a shot E3D, but exactly how many ml\cc is that per injection? Also I got liquid Adex, Im assuming I need to take that with a dropper or a needless syringe? Again what is the proper dosage in ml or cc to get the 0.25mg EOD? Sorry for these trivial ?s but Im not getting the confidence I need by trying to do the conversions myself. As this is my first cycle I want to make sure everything is just right before proceeding.


#19

Forget E3D. Run 250mg of test on monday and thursday which would be 1cc. 1cc on monday, 1 cc on thursday.

Can’t tell you about liquid adex though, always used pills.