T Nation

First Cycle at 21. Feeling Biceps Tendonitis

This is TRT.

This is from discount labs 6 months ago in NYC.

Damn that test is over $700? I mean I was cool with spending cash instead of going through insurance but I’m just a college kid and I can’t get this kinda test every time I encounter some kind of a problem xD

On a side note tho, what’s the name of the clinic or site to it? I’ll check it out.

Well it’s mostly been stressful is why I gained weight, but it isn’t as stressful anymore so I figured as I do my cut o try test and see how much of an impact it does. I’m able to keep up with my diet and training so I should be okay in this regard, especially when my damn bicep tendons stop hurting after I drop arimidex

That’s a great range if you aren’t taking testosterone. Taking testosterone increases your estrogen. That’s how it works. If you want E2 of 20-30 don’t take a testosterone dose that raises it above that.

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This is what $700+ gets you. If you just want Testosterone & Estrogen it’s much cheaper.

Discounted labs (dot com). They’ll send you an email with a requisition number from a doctor to take to Labcorp. Whichever Labcorp you want.

I mean…it’s absolute crap. I get that the medical community has guidelines and that many will fit within that range, but the same medical community denies TRT to someone whose testosterone levels are at 275. So let’s not act like they’re taking seriously the results of thousands of men across the planet. The community is way behind where the users are. If I were to assign you an arbitrary weight and tell you to stay there, irrespective of your actual build and without knowing anything about you, I imagine you’d laugh me out of the room. So why is e2 something we can distill down to a very narrow range and say that everyone should be there? I think it’s far too complicated to confine to that particular number. I get where you’re coming from, but I think there’s far more to it than just one number on paper. Hell, the variation between readings depending on the method of the lab that’s testing should be enough to give anyone pause about how much stock to put in a hard and fast range.


I always laugh when a doctor refers to my “obese” BMI.


@dextermorgan see, can’t do it in NY unfortunately. Would have to drive out to PA, which isn’t that far per se but still

Yeah I read the same thing, bought it and they sent me the requisition number. That statement is there just to appease the state. It works. Others here have done it after I showed them it works. Worse case scenario they immediately refund your money so there’s zero risk in trying.

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You pay out of pocket for it.

For prevention maybe 10mg/EOD if you think you need it. For gyno 20mg/day if gyno is present for reversal.

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Hm sounds interesting. Worth a shot. I’ll check it out.

Now you do mostly lower dose T cycles? Would this be your protocol for 500T/weekly?
Have you run this tamoxifen protocol?

Thanks for the input here.

I get your point but I just have to disagree. I know I’m swimming up stream hear but I think numbers matter. Numbers and symptoms together matter. Only observing symptoms with no data can be misleading and is actually completely unscientific. Only treating numbers doesn’t make sense. That’s why we get labs, correct? Also, what about cholesterol? Do numbers matter with cholesterol? Why not weir until we have symptoms with cholesterol? We don’t do that, we treat the ranges. It also seems that some ranges from medicine we accept and some we reject.

Cholesterol and Estrogen (while on exogenous test) are quite different man. Cholesterol is directly tied to heart disease… we treat it to prevent or reduce risk of heart relates issues.

Cholesterol does not typically exhibit side effects, where as high estrogen does. So it’s also easier to know when an AI is necessary or not.

Absolutely agree. Just glad we all don’t think that all numbers mean nothing.

I just do TRT currently but plenty folks have run Tamoxifen at those doses for those reasons. I’ve run 20mg/day for 6 weeks in the past. By week 4 it started making me feel like crap.

I don’t think they mean nothing, I think their usefulness is grossly overstated as a measure when someone is asymptomatic. That was all I meant.

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