T Nation

First Cycle at 21. Feeling Biceps Tendonitis

Hello all,

I’m relatively new to any kind of performance enhancement drugs. I’ve started a 12 week cycle of testosterone enanthate 250mg every 3.5 days with an AI (Arimidex 0.5mg every other day; at first I was recommended 0.25 but then upped me to 0.5mg) and hCG to keep my natural testosterone production, sperm count and libido.

As of today, this is my 7th test injection and I’ve been noticing something I haven’t noticed throughout my 6 years of bodybuilding - extensive bicep tendon pain. I’m getting an MRI done next week to see if there’s any tare (hopefully not, hopefully it’s just tendonitis - inflammation).

My question for you guys is this: can testosterone injections lead to tendonitis? Or perhaps it is the AI that suppressed estrogen that leads to this issue? Has anyone else experienced this? Should I not take any AI? Maybe this is my body’s way of showing that I don’t need to suppress estrogen since, from what I read, estrogen is responsible for keeping tendons healthy. I can’t do any bicep curls without mild pain. Any advice would be appreciated.

P.s. I’m a 21 y/o male, doing this test cycle as an experiment to see if it helps with metabolism boost and fat loss.

You are taking a fuck-load of AI. I had the same thing happen right before I crashed my E2. Bicep pain then forearms which eventually led to shoulder pain followed by knee pain. Once estrogen fully crashed it was whole body pain and absolutely no energy or drive. You are taking 3.5mg/week of anastrozole. Of the very small amount of folks taking an AI on 500mg/week T they are taking a total of around .5mg/week. I wouldn’t take any AI for a while if I were you. Nothing feels as bad as crashing your estrogen. It’s like working out while someone beats you with a hammer.

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Wow, really? What about all the crap side effects of too much estrogen as test converts to estrogen? I’d prefer to also not have “man-boobs”

Do you think my tendon pain would go away any time soon if I stop taking AI? What would be a good indicator of the need to start taking AI again? And what do you think about hCG, is that safe to keep taking? It’s not an AI

The likelihood of getting gyno from 500mg/week is very slim. It’s something that takes a while to develop and if it does develop you can take Tamoxifen to reverse it. I’ve had gyno previously so I’m especially susceptible to getting it and my estrogen level has been 80 (almost 3 times the normal range) for years and I’ve not had any problem. It’s more of an issue with low T high estrogen.

The HCG will likely help raise your E2 levels back up faster so just stop the AI and you should be fine within a week or two.

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Damn, thanks man. Appreciate it. I’ve been told to wait 2 weeks after cycle (still take AI during those two weeks - should I?) and then take my PCT which is Clomid and Nolvadex for 4 weeks total. That sound about right to you?

I’m asking a lot of questions but I’m new to this; I had imagined my testosterone levels being through the roof that I’d have no problems with recovery and not I can’t even do bicep curls or open a vertically sliding window without feeling it in my bicep tendon:/ kinda freaks me out.

What would be a good indicator that my estrogen levels are too high and I need at least that 0.25mg arimidex per week?

I’ve got to disagree here Dex. I’ve recently had a flare up on 500mg with no adex. I’m now on an adex protocol. I’ve been thinking about doing a post about my gyno history but have been hesitant because the topic is controversial and I don’t want to get ripped apart for just sharing my experiences. I’ve actually taken an estradiol ultra sensitive test every week. I can exactly pin point at what level my e2 is causing gyno flare. Maybe I’m just that unlucky when it comes to this side effect. My history is similar to yours with it.

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@incline315
Why not take tamoxifen? It does a better job preventing & reversing gyno without blocking the positive effects of estrogen? Someone that is genetically predisposed to gyno is going to be a different story from the majority who are not.

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My first cycle I had a similar issue with tendinitis in my knees and elbows. I never had this issue before I tried test. It eventually worked its self out and I felt great but the first month or two on cycle was rough. I use to joke that my joints sounded like a cement mixer because they would crack and creak. Your best bet is to get some blood work done and see where your esteridol (e2) levels are at. It could be a estrogen problem or it could be a reaction to the test causing inflammation or something. Best bet is to do bloods.
Good luck!
Yonk

@dextermorgan I’ve been doing some reading and it seems that optimal estrogen level should be around 20-30pg/ml. If it’s higher - take some AI, if lower stop taking so much AI if any.

Here’s the issue: in NY it’s hard to get frequent bloodwork done. Lab won’t do any bloodwork without a doctor’s note or an order (like Quest Lab). Quest Lab offers testosterone test but it’s only total, not free and they don’t have any estrogen tests. My PCP cannot justify another bloodwork like that. How do you guys get tested? Is there another doctor (specialist) you can go to to get more bloodwork done?

I have tamoxifen on hand and took it the first few days of the flareup. Do you recommend taking tamoxifen on cycle for preventative measure? If so what protocol? I actually really like the drug. I respond well to it with no noticeable side effects.

This is absolute crap and not the case. Why would you keep your Estrogen at a normal level, while your test is 5-6x your normal level? When test goes up, your estrogen should go up. Do not treat a number, treat symptoms.

You’re taking way too much AI. Your Test levels aren’t even at max levels and you probably started taking the AI right away, huh?

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… and are you seriously taking test to boost your metabolism and cut fat? How tall are you and what do you weigh? Sounds like a terrible reason.

Is your trainer the one that got you doing this?

Oh, and HCG does not keep your natural testosterone production going.

It will keep your testicles from stopping testosterone production in most cases. It isn’t natural because it is HCG driven I guess.

I was under the impression it only kept sperm production elevated, but not actual testosterone production. I’ve been wrong before though, so if so, my apologies.

It is an LH analog. It does a bit of both (testosterone and sperm production signaling). I have read that FSH injections are actually better for sperm production signaling.

Blood tests show for TRT guys that test + HCG results in higher TT, than just the same dose of test. This would be in the case that they are secondary. If primary it probably has very little impact.

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@aaroncai started taking AI second day after test injection. That’s what I’ve been recommended. I don’t have a trainer tho. I started the cycle out of curiosity to see how it all works out really. I’m 21 make 5’6” @ 195 lb (I think it’s less but water retention). Fair amount of muscle mass but, unfortunately, fat also. I was going to do a regular cut but my life is very stressful rn so I figured I’d go for a little something that could aid me in any way possible

The 20-30 range is the general excepted range in the medical community. Endocrinologists will recommend (about) this range. This thinking isn’t always in line with the modern TRT community. But to say “it’s absolutely crap” is inaccurate. This guy has done some reading and is presenting what he’s learned. He’s on here to learn more.

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And this is why guys have a hard time opening up about this stuff on forums. You’re just being negative to someone less educated than you.

As for your information, I have personal experience that says otherwise. My ratio of -TT:E2 was 42:1 and I got a flare up. This is well over the 15:1 to 25:1 that most of us stay at. For me personally total E2 does seem to matter. And there may be many more like me.

Soon I’ll post a gyno thread about my personal experience. You guys can rip into me there, but I think it might be valuable to some newer guys wanting another perspective.

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Read… “treat symptoms, not numbers”. No one preaches avoid AI no matter what. Most guys just say that the majority of users on just test alone, don’t typically need an AI at 500mg or less. So wait to see IF it is needed. In your case, assuming it was true gyno and not the all too often “nipple tingling / sensitivity” scare, then by all means treat it.

So if you were having TRUE gyno symptoms, then that indeed, is a symptom and should be treated, although Nolvadex would be a better route to go.

Arimidex isn’t a care free drug without side effects. Throwing it into the beginning of a cycle before having high estrogen symptoms is not the best option.

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Using AAS while under stress and unable to drop body fat on your own isn’t really the best move. The higher body fat can make estrogen management and bloat and more difficult. Test doesn’t just transform you without the diet and training portion.

If I were you, I would stop the cycle. Wait until the stress is over and you can properly diet and exercise. Then consider it once you’ve dropped some weight.

If you’re dead set on this, drop the dosage, 500 is a lot and more than likely will lead to bloat. Once you come off this cycle, your stress levels will be even worse as you will probably feel pretty shitty.

Either way. Drop the Arimidex or go to .25mg twice a week.