T Nation

First Cycle, AI Question


probably around 12% or 13% bf by looking
training five years but probably only two good years as I have added 20 lbs in the past two years and a total of 35 lbs since first hitting the weights.Not looking to be a body builder or power lifter. Have a leg injury from baseball in college but I have been strengthening it little by little. Really just looking to add strength and pull my numbers up a bit.

Get 1RM Bench to 320(as of now 1RM=275=1.49xBW)
Get 1RM Squat to 420(as of now 1RM=355=1.92xBW)
I feel DL will raise with squat so I don't worry about it too much.
Get 1RM Clean to 280(as of now 1RM=245=1.32xBW)

Another big thing is I have been stuck at MAX SET 15-20 pull ups (20 was my ABSOLUTE BEST that I did only a few times) for the past year and want to power through to 25 or 30.
Aiming to sit at about 200 lbs.

So as you can see pretty average/nothing special.

This will be my first cycle.

1-10 Test E 500/wk
1-6 Tbol 50 ED

Question is since Tbol is known to be dry and doesn't promote very much water retention, should I start Adex week 1 at .25 E3D or week 3 or 4 at .25 EOD? I was told I may inhibit Tbol gains, which are relatively small already, if I run the Adex in the first few weeks of the cycle, but have also read in my research that Adex takes a few weeks to build up in your system.

PCT is standard nolva 40/40/20/20

Thanks for any help.


^honestly, i don't think you need the t-bol for this cycle, based off your goals.

i think your cycle looks pretty good, as is... i might run the nolva a bit longer, tho. 6 weeks at 20 mg/day is generally fine...




Thanks for the input. I do disagree though, I think tbol fits my goals exactly. It's known to give good lean strength gains, which is why I have chosen it. I will look into the pct protocol though to see if it may suit me better. Any input on the AI in case I do end up running the tbol?


you can use the T-bol if you want. what i was saying is that you prolly don't need it...




as far as the PCT, take the time to read this thread and see if you might wanna tweak your PCT:



Personally I'd do only test fir first cycle. Also arimidex in my experience is worthless. But again that's only me, it simply doesn't work for me. I get gyno on anything but letro. However I was recently turned on to a SERM called Raloxifene that has done great checking my gyno so far.

Aromasin or Letro for AI. A dex is weak sauce. Again at least it is for me.

I think you'll gain plenty of strength and size on just test. Plus orals put a strain on your liver.


Cyco thanks for the links. Some great Info there.

Both of you are telling me that the tbol is probably not needed to obtain my goals, which makes this cycle much simpler. I'll just turn it into a test only cycle.

I actually have both adex and aromasin on hand just in case, and I am planning on running the adex. Hopefully there are no problems, but if there are problems I have both serms and aromasin on ready to combat it. Just like you said, everyone's gotta figure out what works for them, and hopefully I get lucky on the first try with the adex. Thanks for the help fellas.


glad to hear the Ralox is working for ya...


yup, good luck. i think you've got a good background and reasonable goals, so i think you'll see good results from a basic cycle.


I'm going to go against the grain here and say that you totally should add the tbol. Why not? It's not exactly a harsh compound in terms of size, and it'll get you gaining straight out the gate.

Personally, I love me an oral kickstart



glad to hear the Ralox is working for ya...

Yeah man it's working good. I'd have never known about it if not for you, so thanks!!


If you already have both compounds may as well use them. But like Cyco said and I agree, not necessary at all. Then again Yogi gives solid advice and obviously has good background as well.

Your cycle goals are similar to what mine were for my current run. Strength gains, modest size gains, stay lean. I ran only Test and loved the results. Gained 8lb, actually gained up to 16 but decided to diet some off because my sport demands a lot of endurance and being too heavy slowed my run, and hindered my pull ups some. My lifts are WAY up. Back Squat PR at 425 (from 385), Front Squat at 365 (up from 315), Bench at 365 (from 325), overhead press standing barbell 275... most impressively my pull ups are insane. I can bust out 25 strict and around 35-40 if I Kip (gymnastic technique).

Training is also going to play a huge role in your performance gains no matter what you take. But I think with your stats, you'll blossom just fine on T alone. Control the water with an AI (which you know my opinion on, A-Dex is pretty weak, but works great for some).

Since you are set on using A-Dex, I would recommend starting it prior to your cycle to let it build up in your system. If you get any hints of itchy nips get on LETRO right away. OR....get Raloxifine and take it throughout the cycle.

Hopefully you are lucky and won't have any gyno issues. I didn't get it until my 3rd cycle when I combined Test and Tren. Since then anything that raises my test (even OTC stuff) gives me problems. I don't take any chances now days. That's also why I'm timid to run more than one compound as well.

Good luck to you though dude. Train Hard, Eat Right, and Sleep well.


Thanks for the advice.Im thinking I am going to go with the tbol test combo now,mostly because I am really excited to give tbol a try! Im glad yogi spoke up! I am going to start adex week one. I doubt it will hinder my gains very much at all and Its better safe than sorry.


It won't slow you down a bit I can't imagine. Maybe you'll gain less water weight, but I don't count that as gains anyway because you lose it later. With that goal you have off lots of pull ups gaining too much too fast might hurt that goal anyway.

Because of my experience with gyno I'd never recommend running aromatizing compounds without an AI. I'm no pro. Cyco and Yogi know infinitely more than me. I can just speak from my own experiences.

Best wishes man.


run the tbol, run the AI.

Always run an AI