First Cycle After Years On TRT. Advice?

Hallo people, new member here. Have a few questions, would appreciate some help.
A little history, 40 years old. Been seriously lifting for 20 years. Was always a guy “new” people asked are you “on steroids”. But I never touched any. I give credit here to having had the luck to learn about training, eating from the right people, good genetics and the will and discipline to implement what I learned and lead a gym lifestyle.

About 5 years ago, training/results didn’t go further the way I was used to. Thought, yeah, ok, it’s normal, I am not so young any more. Don’t want any more kids so I decided to do a first ever, test e only cycle as laid out here:
**- Week 1 to 12: Testosterone enanthate every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
**- Week 1 to 12:hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
- Week 1 to 14: Arimidex @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
But as a “responsible adult”, had my blood work done before it, which revealed primary hypogonadism. Never did that cycle. Realized I had almost all low T symptoms since like forever, and only my iron will in every sense led to having the body I was almost always happy with. Waited a little after the shock diagnosis and started TRT 3 years ago.

I was lucky. Started with 62.5 mg test-e s.c. e3.5d and despite some advice against it, with hcg mo-we-fr each 250 iu. Daily cialis 5mg. No AI. Felt like a superman from the beginning, been never once tired in my life since then, never made a change in protocol. No side effects whatsoever. Boodwork always great, except for HCT-up to 48, but I never donated. No bruising, no shortness of breath.
Since then, in these 3 years, added probably >7kg of new muscle mass and have even less body fat now(I weigh 94 kg/180cm). Vascularity on a whole new level.

So now i’m thinking, the time is right. Wanna try it for 12 weeks, see what happens, maybe live a blast & cruise life if all goes well. Don’t wanna experiment with other compounds, simply wanna see how I do on test only for the first time. I of course understand, no PCT would be needed.

So my questions for starters, are:

  1. Since my 2 x 62.5 mg a week put me in high normal range(same with estrogen), do I simply inject 250 mg e3.5d i.m. and continue doing my normal trt s.c. injections at the same time-which would make it a “625 mg cycle/week” or should I do only i.m. 2 x 250?
  2. I would like to keep my hcg 3 x 250iu/week, hcg makes me feel awesome. Is there anything that would speak against that?
  3. Should I use arimidex as I already wrote, 0.25 mg eod and when yes, till when, end of week 14? Or leave it and see how I do without it?
    Have everything else on hand, in case of side effects.

Thank you very much.

  1. Sure, you can do that if you’d like. It’s me I just go straight 500/w because it’s easier, but a little more won’t kill you.
  2. No reason to stop what you’re doing with HCG.
  3. Take an AI as needed. If you know for a fact you need it at that dose of test then use the amount that works.

Welcome to the forums.

You could do this. But I don’t know why you would want to. Together with your HCG shots, you’d be jabbing yourself quite a bit each week and not getting any additional benefit from it. Better to just try 250mgs 2 x wk IM and leave out the subQ Test shots, IMO.

Speak against HCG making you feel awesome? Nope. That stuff is great! But, I will just caution you that it will make your nuts produce estrogen that cannot be controlled by Arimidex. So, a few weeks into the cycle, if you start to experience high estro sides, just know that there will be a considerable amount of estrogen in your blood that you cannot control with an AI. There is no guarantee that you will experience high E2 sides. This is just something to keep in mind. You may also be thinking, “I’m on HCG now. So isn’t the E2 already there?” Yes it is. But when you start injecting greater amounts of Testosterone, there will be a whole lot more. Will this be a problem for you? No one knows. You will have to wait and see.

See how you do without it first. Introduce only if necessary, in small amounts, until desired result achieved. Use as little as possible.

Thanks for your quick answers, guys.
I, of course didn’t start this thread having read nothing before that. Had years to read, but still had these questions and i’m sure i’ll have more as the time goes by.

My logic was, most of the guys who start cycling, with or without testing themselves before are in normal range. My trt puts me in the normal range and it seems that vast majority of ppl worldwide recommend test e only 500/week first cycle. That’s why I thought, my normal range, plus 2 i.m. shots=“standard” first cycle. I do not mind jabbing my belly at all, been a long time since i’ve been doing 5 sc shots a week, its a habbit and no trouble whatsoever. As you all know, there are people that recommend all sorts of different first cycles, more test, or dbol first for several weeks etc, “you first cycle should be the best” etc. That’s why I thought, well “extra 125mg” may bring some difference and i’m def. staying with test e only. I could be wrong, but that is of course why I am here.

" That stuff is great! But, I will just caution you that it will make your nuts produce estrogen that cannot be controlled by Arimidex. You may also be thinking, I’m on HCG now. So isn’t the E2 already there?”"
Hulk, you get me very confused here. I am actually thinking : I’m on HCG now. So isn’t the E2 ‘that cannot be controlled by AI’ already there? Meaning, guys on trt having to take an AI are taking it because they are prone to aromatising and not because of HCG, right? So AI on cycle would be needed(if needed) because of E sides that come from extra test all of a sudden? I will listen to you and start without it of course. Sorry if I sound confusing, just wann do things right.

Last question. If E sides happen, bloating, lots of water retention, mood swings for example I guess I wouldn’t mind. What would trouble me would be nipple sensitivity or lumps. I have easy access to all things that I could need. Even raloxifen. If gyno signs happen, what do I start: Nolvadex, Arimidex, Aromasin?

Thanks again and sorry for the trouble

Yes, it is. But if you start 500/wk Test, there will be a lot more, via aromitization.
I should have been more clear. Let me try again…

Right now you have X amount of E2 in your system. Some of it is being produced by your nuts and cannot be controlled with an AI. Some of it is being converted from Test into E2 via aromitization and could be controlled by an AI. Regardless of origin, the total amount is not a problem for you right now.

When you hop on 500(or 625) Test a week, the nut-produced E2 will still be there, but A LOT more will be made from T - E2 conversion. So more total E2. This may or may not be a problem for you. Some people have no issues with E2 off the charts. Some aren’t so lucky.

If E2 does become a problem for you, and you attempt to control it with an AI, it may work, but it may not be as effective as you had hoped, because you would still have all the E2 in your system that’s being produced by your nuts. I was just giving you something to keep in mind. On 500Test and 750HCG a week, i predict some high E2 sides mid-cycle. I hope I’m wrong and you have no issues.

Ideally, you would take none of the three. But since You state you would not mind any of the other E2 sides and that gyno, nipple sensitivity, and lumps are your only concern, take the Nolvadex.

Thanks again. I will start AI free and see what happens.
Now that i think about it, there is something else which could happen and which I would hate. Something I had a problem with before trt. ED and/due tol ack of libido. When I thought I am just the way I am. I realized that I am not the way I am, that it was all because of low T, and since 2 weeks after trt start, it all changed for the better. It is great since then.

If those problems come again on cycle, which I refuse to believe because cialis works so gut for me, I would wanna deal with it.
But I guess for that, I would need bloowdork asap so I/ we could diagnose the exact possible cause.

Good people, I have another, probably stupid question.
I had to delay starting my first blast, I still don’t know when I will start. Have a bad case of knee tendinitis, can’t squat. After so many years of training, I know one thing. I hate squats, but unfortunately I need them to grow my thighs. Without them, best I can do is maintain, if that. And I wanna wait until I am pain free.

In the meantime, stupid question. I will be pinning quads. Each side once a week. 25g 1 inch needles. 1 ml/cc/250mg per pin. I am in Europe, they come in 1 ml ampules. Is insulin syringe a must? Is there a problem using a 2ml syringe, which is much shorter, feeling it with 1 ml? I thing I should be able to control the speed of injection-not injecting too fast. Somehow seems safer to me than using a thin insulin syringe and extending my whole hand, so to speak, especially since thy are not luer lock.

That’s perfectly fine. I’ve used that gauge and 5/8” many times and they work well. No worries.

Not a problem at all. The difference in barrel sizes will have an effect on the speed of injection assuming pressure is constant (Boyle’s law, but for liquids, basically) but it’s nothing to be concerned about.

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You would have to push harder on the 2 CC syringe to generate the same pressure. P=F/A (I think this is the formula to use, not Boyle’s law, which is for gasses). If the force applied is the same, then having a larger area, will reduce the pressure.

I am too far into the weeds on this one.

I would say to OP, that I personally would rethink cycle volume injections into the quads. That is me though. I’ve had some pretty nasty quad injections.


Thanks a lot iron and ben.
Ben, compared to you, I’ve had none😂. Not a single i.m. oil injection in my life. 3 + years of s.c. in the abdominal area.
My vastus lateralis is pretty well developed. I can/or will be able see exactly what I’m doing. Not that I don’t appreciate your advice but I researched the injection spots thoroughly(found a million pros and cons for every single muscle) and decided on quads for the beginning. After all, if I’m gonna start this lifestyle, plenty of time for other spots. Learning by doing, right :man_shrugging:

I couldn’t remember the formula, hence the “Boyle’s Law but for liquids” comment :joy::joy: I think the holiday season exhausted my brain to the point where very basic memories have been vaporized.

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I like quads but most hate them. Glutes are the most pain free for me.

I’m not sure but @mnben87 might have been talking about doing this volume into the quads, not the site. I am fine doing 0.6 or less in quads, 1mL would give me decent PIP. For volumes great than that I do glutes. I can do 0.6mL or less in quads, delts, and lats. If my cycle calls for more volume I plan those injections into glutes on the days I’m cycling whatever it is.

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I actually know about the “no more than 0.6 cc subq ever” rule. Never actually injected more than 0.3 cc subq in my life. Occasional “lump” that goes away in a few days. Never happens any more, now that I know every square mm of my abdominal skin.
I know that far more ppl on TRT still inject i.m. rather than subq. I started and never stopped subq. Makes me wonder ( just now at this very moment thought of it), why not simply do 2 0.5 cc shots subc when cycling, on every test pinning day? :thinking: A “couple more” subq shots wouldn’t bother me and there’s my 250 mg/1cc in me, no pain, much smaller infection risk. Does anyone actually do that? Does it make sense at all? Absorption rate etc.

And semi related, do you all warm up your test vials/ampules before injecting i.m.? Does that really make that big a difference when we talk about PIP?

Thanks again

I used to do SubQ. Got painful lumps a few times, but not often. Then I tried delts. Delts were painful for about a month, then it was completely PIP free except for the random bad shot about once or twice a month that would have a little PIP. I tried quads for about 2 weeks. In that period, I had two shots that were the worst PIP I have ever experienced.

I now pin my lats. I have been doing it for months now. I haven’t gotten PIP one single time, and currently I am doing 1 mL shots EOD. I use a 1/2" 27 gauge slin pin. The only thing I really have to watch out for is veins. I am very veiny, and have visible veins in my lats. Them being visible makes them easy to avoid.

Knowing what I know now, I would have just started with Lats.

I think absorption is better IM (probably only slightly). There was a study that showed SubQ was better for levels, but it wasn’t a fair study. The SubQ group injected twice as often, and levels were measured at trough.

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I dont see any reason to risk of breaking your current balance

What is your current test level with your current TRT protocol?

Oils were designed to be IM. I don’t see the point in deviating. Delts are pretty pain free. Quads had a little PIP at first but it goes away. Glutes have almost always been pain free and you can pin more oil in them. I don’t do more than 1ml in quads or delts.

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I wanna unbalance my balance and gain more. TRT does it’s thing but I am not so young anymore and decided to try a blast/blasting. I am shut down anyway, on TRT forever. I wanna put on more muscle, try to keep some and if all goes well do it I don’t know how many times more. Maybe just this one time, maybe for years. I can’t imagine myself not training, ever. No PCT crap, will always be on TRT.

TT 2 days after pin: 7.8(3.5-11.5) ng/dl
3.53 and 3.08 were the two results, 3 + years ago that gave a green light for becoming a TRT patient officialy. All “other” bloodwork good. I always feel good. Since the start of TRT. Never had a problem like people on TRT I always read about. Feeling bad, finding the right dosage which could take years. I got it right (for me) from the start, I expect it will work just the same when I get back to TRT.

I see that your TRT is not putting your testosterone level that high end. I have started 125 mg every 5 days Sustanon. Will use HCG as well 300 IU every 5 days. I wonder how much I will get.

I am a new man, felt good in every area of my life, after starting TRT. That’s what matters to me. With how I feel, I wouldn’t change a thing whatever the TT level says/would say🤷‍♂️.

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