T Nation

First Cycle Advice?


#1

I am planning on starting a cycle soon I have done a good bit of research and narrowed it down to two types of cycles
and would like yalls advice Cycle 1 8 weeks - 500mg of test e with 0.25 armidex Eod 2 weeks off after last injection and pct of nolvdex 40/40/20/20 my second option was Cycle 2 week 1-8 test e 500mg a week with 10mg of nolvdex a day and 2 weeks after last injection off and the pct for 21 days of clomid 50mg a day really worried about gyno would like some helpful advice instead of bashing me


#2

Taking a SERM on cycle isn’t necessary most of the time. Controlling the level of testosterone that is aromatised via an AI is the most effective way to avoid gyno.

The only problem with either proposed cycle is the length. You should push to 10-12 weeks instead of eight.


#3

@iron_yuppie So the first Cycle would be the better choice and I read that the longer the cycle the higher chance of side effects so I thought an 8 week cycle would be best and I heard you could get tremendous gains still for the first time


#4

Eight weeks is fine, but it’s not optimal unless you’re using test prop. The way enanthate works is that it is broken down slowly, so it takes probably three weeks (maybe a little less) for it to reach peak saturation in your blood. That just means that five or six weeks is when you should be hitting your real stride. But yes, if you eat right and train well then you’ll make solid gains even on a shorter cycle like that. You do what you’re comfortable with, man. If you’re worried about sides then I understand why you’d want to go shorter. It’s entirely up to you and you need to do what works. Best of luck to you.


#5

@iron_yuppie I was wondering how often I should take the arimdex and if I should take it during pct as well.Also I read that you should start taking arimdex the week before first pin is that necessary


#6

The general consensus on when to take anastrozole is on the day of injection. If you’re pinning twice a week then taking your AI twice weekly should be sufficient. The half-life of anastrozole is ~3 days, which doesn’t mean that it’s effective life is three days. Twice weekly should be fine.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to starting an AI. The first and most common thought is to take it from day one. Anastrozole takes seven days to reach peak blood plasma levels, so you’ll be building to that while the testosterone esters are breaking down and releasing into your system.

Thought group number two is a little more cautious. This thought is to start the anastrozole at a lower dose at the beginning and then dial in as you go. I’m in this camp because I know what a frozen hellscape life is when your e2 is crashed. I prefer the flexibility that you get when you start lower, get your body used to the new drug, then tweak dosage as needed. The truth is more muddy though…because without blood work you won’t actually know anything for sure. So if you’re doing it by feel then I say start lower and adjust. If you’ve got blood work and you know what your baseline is going in you can probably make a more accurate estimate of dosage and timing.

You don’t need an AI when you’re into pct. Because you’re not feeding your body exogenous testosterone you shouldn’t have an issue with excess test aromatizing.


First Cycle, AI Timing?
#7

Alright I want do one of my over the top wordy rants.

With any estered hormone this is a how it works in a nutshell. You inject on day one from that point it has half of it broken down and absorbed by the time it’s half life passes. It continues to half every half life until about five half lives pass then it is terminal or just no longer enough there to do anything. So 500 mgs of test enanthate then half life of 10.5 days passes and 250 mgs is left and that continues to half every half life until nothing is left.

Now once you inject the amount that is broken off from the ester and this available to do something in your body that amount peaks within the first three days or so then tapers down. So that first day after the shot your body might break 30 mgs off of the ester and use it, it does about 32 the next day, 34 the third, then only 20 on day four and that drops until by the time 10.5 days laps there is 250mgs left. (Please understand I made up the numbers but they would be somewhat close)

Now during that time after you inject on day one we get to day 3.5 and you inject 250mgs. You continue to follow this plan of 250mgs every 3.5 days or 500mgs a week.

The amount of testosterone being broken off of the ester and then used by your body continues to go up until about five half lives, provided you continue the steady injection schedule.

So with a test enanthate cycle it’s about week 5-6 or even later before you really get to the place where that hormone broken off of the ester is finally stable. It is rising from day one until around five half lives. By around week 5-6 that is the real hot spot for growth of muscle starts. You will start growing around week 2-3 but it isn’t going full out with the afterburners on until week 5-6.

So a cycle of 8 weeks is kind of short. With enanthate the shortest should be 10 weeks but 12 is better and you could push to 15. With it being your first cycle there is no real need to go 15 but you should at least think about 10-12.

You asked about arimidex dosage. I would start with the 0.25 mgs EOD but know that later in the cycle you will probably need to increase it. Go read all the signs of high or low estrogen so you know what to look for. Also know that if you have to adjust dosage it takes a couple of days before you might see that sign go away. So don’t panic and keep messing with the dosage level if you don’t see something stop a day after you adjust the dosage.

Other than that I think Iron covered it.


#8

@iron_yuppie @now_i_care thanks for both of your advice I have another question though I wa wondering if I pushed it to 10 will that affect pct and how would I need to change it


#9

This is a very thoughtful post.


#10

Shutdown is shutdown. The only time PCT might be different is if you are on short esters and jump off cycle real early or if you push your cycle real real long like a year. Even then the basic core of the PCT is the same.

I didn’t notice if anyone said anything about it yet but your pct should be 4 weeks total. You can go clomid or Nolvadex or both. Some guys react to clomid so keep that in mind if you have not already committed to it.
Dosage for clomid PCT would be around 100mgs a day for two weeks then 50mgs a day for two weeks.
For Nolvadex it tends to be 40 mgs a day for two weeks then 20mgs a day for two weeks.

If you feel compelled to use both then usually the dosage of each is cut in half. There really isn’t a reason for using both but people do it and there are plenty of threads here on the subject.


#11

@now_i_care thanks for the advice I’m gonna go read up on low and high estrogen.Im still debating on pushing to 10 weeks but I think I probably will. My goal is to start in the next 2 weeks I’ll come back and let y’all know how it goes


#12

Hey guys was wondering if I should take liver pills or something while On cycle


#13

@now_i_care @iron_yuppie.So guys I was doing a little reading and found out it’s really hard to split arimdex.Then I read up on liquiDex can you guys give me some insight.What would be proper dosage.How Often?


#14

I have never used liquid anything. My arimidex (ugl) comes as a little square tablet. I just get a little knife, make sure it’s sharp and cut the thing into either halves or quarters. You could also get a pill splitter from a pharmacy or drug store.

If you have capsules you could try emptying them then dividing the loose powder into equal piles. As far as swallowing the powder you could either get empty capsules, kinda tedious to order them so some cheap supplements that you could empty out and repack with the arimidex powder, or take some sort of sweet fruit juice mix the powder in then chug it. I would only mix the powder into like an ounce of fluid so if it tastes like ass you don’t have to drink a glass of it.
That’s just me spit balling ideas.

If you are sticking with500 mgs of test a week then I would start with 0.25 mgs of arimidex EOD. Just know that you will probably have to increase it. You could show signs of high estrogen as early as week 2-3 but bet that by weeks 4-6 you will probably need to be closer to 0.5 mgs EOD.
Everyone is different, body fat makes us aromatize test more, and the only sure fire way to KNOW is with blood work.


#15

Oh and be careful there are a LOT of bs herbal supplements that claim to be aromatase inhibitors but they only produce marginal effects at best.

If you are unsure, look at the other products the site sells. If it has a bunch of tablets with names like decabol and trenavar then it is probably herbal. If it is a company selling research chemicals then it is probably legit. If they also sell testosterone enanthate, testosterone cypionate or pretty much any injectable then it is probably legit. (Provided they are selling legit injectables)


#16

I have tiny arimidex tabs that I cut with a $3 pill cutter I purchased at the local pharmacy…I have no issues at all splitting them in half…


#17

I cut my arimidex (pharma) with a large razor blade. Liquid is a little bit of a gamble, just so you know.


#18

@iron_yuppie @now_i_care starting cycle soon was wondering if I should take liver pills?


#19

Unless you’re taking an oral there’s no need for liver support.