T Nation

First Cycle Advice


#1

Hey guys, im starting my first cycle in a month and i just need your input to let me know if i have it dialed down.

So i am 23 and i am 180lbs and 5'8

First cycle:
weeks 1-12 Test e 500mg Injecting mon. and thurs.
Will have arimidex on hand waiting for Symptoms. If symptoms occur ill start .25mg ED
PCT: 40/40/20/20 Nolva
100/100/50/50 Clomid
Will start PCT 2 weeks after last inj.

Other question: I was born with PseudoGyno which is just fat tissue behind the nipple making it appear puffy. Will this in any way increase my chance of getting gyno or should i lipo it out before hand


Need Help Regarding My First Test E Cycle
#2

Adex @ 0.5mg eod.- Start right away not "if symptoms occur" - You want to prevent gyno in the first place.

You have not mentioned HCG, so get some and do HCG @ 250iu 3 x per week through cycle until last pin.

PCT is too strong - Nolva @ 20mg ed for 8 weeks - If you want to do the Nolva and Chlomid approach then at least drop the chlomid down to 50/50/25/25 - I have used this many times but the new method of lower Nolva for a longer period of time seems proven to be better.


#3

Hm so you believe just nolva would suffice? I thought the 40/40/20/20 100/100/50/50 was the general acceptance for the PCT? Also i thought id feel out how i respond to test and if i even get symptoms, but i assume youre right and ill just leave that to the blood work.

About the HCG, i heard its not necessary and atrophy is just temporary during the cycle and that HCG just speeds up recovery as the testicles will recover eventually? Correct me if i'm wrong ofcourse


#4

I have done similar PCTs of Chlomid and Nolvadex, but the new theory that a SERM should be used at a lower dose for a longer period of time makes alot of sense. The idea that too higher SERM dose actually stimulates the body too much rather than a lower SERM dose helping to achieve normal levels - which is the idea of PCT.

HCG should be put into all cycles. It mimics LH so that natural test production is easier for the body to resume come end of cycle. Again, there is conflicting advice as to HCG is best used on cycle or in PCT; it comes down to preventing testicular atrophy on cycle in the first place rather then trying to get them back during PCT.

HCG doses no larger than 500iu should be used and at 2-3 times per week to avoid desensitization - This again goes against advice to pin large doses of HCG during a PCT period.


#5

Do you have any knowledge of my last question? No problem if you don't


#6

There is no guarantee of full HPTA recovery even with HCG on cycle and a perfect PCT. If you choose to do this, you cover all the bases to give you the best chances of recovery.


#7

ah okay i understand. May i ask what your input is for my PCT?


#8

Sorry to reply so late, but ive decided to go with your longer PCT with 8 weeks at 20mg ED of nolva. I just wanted to know what was the reasoning or proof behind this new method? And if there was support behind it. I would hope you understand my asking of this seeing how im used to seeing the conventional clomid/nolva.


#9

Without getting all scientific - It basically comes down to chlomid and nolva being to strong together and stimulate LH too much - The idea of PCT is to return all levels back to normal so a lower dose SERM allows this to happen in a better way than a higher amount. - I have always used chlomid/nolva together but PCT threads from guys who know the science have suggested otherwise and my training partner has tried and tested 20mg ed for 8 weeks and liked it.


#10

fair enough, ill give the 8 week PCT a go and let you know how i feel then, worst comes to worst after i get bloods, could i just rerun the PCT in a different way to modify my results? (Only if my bloods come back with negative towards the 8week plan ofcourse)


#11

500mg test with HCGAdex on cycle and a lengthly nolvadex PCT is pretty much the cleanest/mildest combination anyone could do...

I dont think there is any way for improvement other than Adex through PCT with a taper down and taper the nolvadex down until you hit the 12 week long pct mark.