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First Cycle Advice: Test E and Tbol

I am wanting to run my first cycle at the beginning of the year for 16 weeks including PCT. Looking for advice.

Stats:

25 years old
5’9"
187lbs
Dropped from 23% body fat to 16% body fat last 6 months

Looking to run Test E at weeks 1-10
Should I run 500 mg per week or 300 mg?

Also looking to stack Tbol with it as well
40mg per day at weeks 4-10

Will have Aromasin on deck in case of estrogen flair ups.

PCT:

Nolvadex at weeks 12-16
Split 40/40/20/20
TUDCA every day

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I see nothing glaring here. You only need TUDCA when running the oral. Your dosage is a personal choice. You have two camps where one tells you go with the 500mg to maximize gains and the other that says 300mg because less is ok for a first cycle. It’s a personal choice. Many here will also tell you to run test only on the first cycle but I think test with the safer orals such as tbol is ok. Best of luck sir.

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Would the dosage determine how much weight and size I gain? Say 20lbs on 500mg or 10lbs on 300mg? Also how should I take the oral? All 40 at once or split the dosage?

Yes the larger dosage in theory should help you achieve more in size. “How much” is individual and not necessarily linear with dosage increase. Tbol has a very long half life at 16 hours compared to other common orals. There is no need to take more than 2x per day IMO.

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There have been studies that show in the ranges we are taking about the dose response curve is pretty linear. I think when the dosages are very high, the results taper off.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11701431/

Fwiw, I would run 500 if cycling since the shutdown risk is the same. Since I’m on TRT, I went with 325 since the shutdown risk is not there (going with less gains but less sides). I’m also running var at the end because I think sides wise I’m better off using that plus test vs higher test.

Thanks for the sound advice. Gear should be in sometime next week. Have a few more questions regarding pinning. How soon should I pin before the gym? I go at 5:30 a.m. Should I take my tbol same time as I pin on week 4? Also will preworkout be necessary?

First cycle should be Testosterone only; 300mg is plenty.
You will only gain so much muscle for the first time. Yes, a higher dose will result in more FFM, but it will include water/glycogen. No need to stack anything.

Get anastrozole. 1/4 tab twice per week until cycle is completed.
You don’t want Exemestane as it is a suicidal aromatase inhibitor.

PCT should begin 4 weeks after the last pin of Test E, as it takes 5 half life cycles for a drug to clear the body.

Most people take too high a dosage of SERMS and wonder why they feel like death. These are drugs meant for breast cancer. Nolvadex also has about a 7 day half life. 10mg EOD is more than enough for 4 weeks. More is not better; Your body needs only enough to block the estrogen receptors. But of course this goes against the bro scientists.

Fareston is superior, but difficult to get a script for. As little as 1/4 (15mg) tab twice per week is more than enough to block the receptors and stimulate LH/Test release.

How much of an increase in test?

On 300 I would not touch an ai unless needed. Have it on :raised_hand:

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The increase depends on different variables. However, the goal is to to restart your HPTA so that when you stop the SERM your body will continue producing what it normally is capable of.
For example, if the SERM gets you to 600 ng/DL or 900 ng/dL, it doesn’t matter. Once it clears the body, your own LH/Test production capability occurs and your level will reach homeostasis.

For me, the SERM brings my test level to ~600ng/dL literally from ~100ng/dl (Immediate Post-cycle level) after the 2nd dose of Fareston (15mg-1/4 tab). Powerful drugs. Again, more is not better. Sufficient is the goal.

That is remarkable result, I don’t recall seeing something like that when looking at studies on it. I’ve seen a study done on Clomid where 12.5mg EOD increased obese men’s test by 50%.

Clomid is a terrible SERM. Nolvadex is the alternative if Fareston can’t be acquired. Fun fact: They tweaked Nolvadex in order to create Fareston in the lab.

Literally every thread he writes in he is always preaching 1/4 tab AI… :joy::joy:

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I’m assuming he is also speaking “tabs” in terms of US pharmacy grade Arimadex which is 1mg/tab. Things like this should be specified as many users on here get UGL gear and don’t read between the lines.

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I’m reaching through my screen to give that hand an uncalled for, awkward high five.

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Still waiting on gear to arrive. I don’t want to waste the tbol because I don’t see another cycle in my future. So I’m gonna pair it with the Test E but again not start it til week 4. Would dosing my Test E at 300mg a week and gradually increasing to 500mg at the end of the cycle be beneficial?

You don’t see another cycle in your future?

That’s what we all said!

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Haha so I’ve heard! But I’m fairly happy with my natural state. I’m really just trying to get bigger legs as I struggle the most there. I’m also hoping to get my chest more puffed out. I’d like to be a solid 190 with around 10% bf at the end of this cycle.

It’s is very likely you’d lose the muscle gained from cycling if you don’t continue. If you’re genuinely happy with your natural body then I’d suggest not messing around with your hormones and stay natty

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Personally I’d run the 300mgs of Test over the 500mgs of Test any day and I would minus the tbol. I would substitute the tbol for anavar

I know everyone here says 500mg Test is standard first cycle but honestly I wish my first cycle would have been 100mgs Test and 400mgs primo.

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