T Nation

First Cycle, 300mg Test E. Change Training?

Hello,

Firstly I would like to say thank you to anyone who replies here!

I am currently running 300 per week Test E, I am two weeks into my cycle, I decided to not run my Dbol and save them for a later cycle.
I have spent a lot of time researching muscle recovery and I am a little confused, I have always responded best to full body workouts one day on one off, whilst running 300 Test E injecting twice per week should I just increase the sets whilst I workout? Do some people work arms daily?

I’m feeling very excited to see some changes, if I put on 15/20lbs in twelve weeks I’ll be very pleased, currently eating big and eating clean

How tall are you? Weight & bf?

I’d seriously doubt you’d put on 20lbs of muscle from 300mg/week unless you are severely underweight to begin with. I’ve been on 200mg for years and haven’t put on 20lbs. What you likely imagine 300mg/week doing is what 500mg would actually do which is why it’s normally touted as a beginner cycle. Nothing wrong with doing less though.

1 Like

300mg per week is plenty for a first cycle. In fact, it’s good enough for several cycles to get you well above your genetic natural limit.

The gains will mainly come from your nutrition. Eat a lot of clean foods and increase the calories every week if you are not gaining.

1 Like

Unless of course your main goal is to look like you just did a cycle.

I hope he does 300mg/week and then posts his results.

1 Like

Not sure what you mean. Of course his goal is to make gains that look like he was on cycle.

@mnben87 just did a 350mg/week first cycle, is very knowledgeable about lifting & diet and was underwhelmed by the results. Maybe he can comment.
(last time I tag you about this I promise)

1 Like

The difference in gains between 300 & 500mg is pretty big and the risk is basically the same. 300mg is a waste of time when 500mg would get you so much more.

It was 13 weeks, 325 per week Test E, and 50 mg Var for the last 7 weeks (although I will admit I went to 400 mg test and 100 mg Var for the last week of my meet prep). I was underwhelmed by it. I was already on TRT at 150 mg a week, so that may be part of it. I had gained 8 or so lbs by the end of week 12, but then I got the flu and lost basically all the weight (why I bumped things at the end to try to add back the weight). One more thing to mention to put all the info out there is that the training was probably not ideal for mass as I was peaking for a PL meet. It was still probably more than many do in the gym.

People are different and respond differently. On 150 mg a week my TT was about 1000 ng/dL (pin MWF), some are 1.5X that much. For them 350 would likely work nicely. I am thinking next blast of doing 600 mg a week.

Another thing to think about is that how developed you are seems to come into play with the results you will get from the same dose. I could see someone with a lot less muscle developing more mass than a really developed individual (even if both are natural to start).

Edit: one more thing worth mentioning is that the Var was suspicious. I think it was Var, but likely under dosed. Test I believe was good.

1 Like

Except it isn’t. You may “appear” more muscular after doing 500mg compared to 300mg, but it isn’t more muscle. It is more water and glycogen. Also, lots of guys can’t do it due to excess estradiol. But again, it is not true that they will gain more muscle just be cause they are taking more Test.

So everything else the same a person will not gain more muscle on 300mg vs 500mg? You can’t really believe that.

That’s nonsense and all in your head. There’s rarely guys here running an AI on 500mg.

3 Likes

@dextermorgan and @TRT_Phoenix interesting exchange of ideas.

I was considering doing A first blast of 375mg of test cyp a week with 50mg var but the var is proving difficult, so not sure if 375mg plus my small TRT HCG dose is enough for the first blast.

I am in full corona lockdown (don’t have it) with access to my power rack and have a 6 day 12 session lifting program I am ready to start. Super excited.

Debating starting the blast and or waiting till I have access to 500mg a week for a test only first blast.

I was thinking I would run 300 for 14 weeks as I don’t want to run an AI if I can help it, I read that the chances I would need AI are higher with a higher dose, you both seem to know your stuff though differing opinions, what would you both say to me running 500 for the middle six weeks?

I am hoping to gain 15lbs, this is my first cycle.

I am eating clean and getting my extra calaries, the only junk food I am eating is cheap flapjacks, they are 400 cal each, I don’t count these as my cal surplus.
I eat two a day, always have I love them.

I’m 5.10
79 kilos
17% bodyfat

@muzzerous
You really ought to run it the full length of the cycle. Very rarely does anyone need an AI on 500mg. You aren’t very big for your height so gaining 15 lbs is possible.

@trt_training_hard

You can definitely gain muscle on 300mg you’d just gain more on 500mg doing the same thing. If it proves difficult to get more T and you don’t want to wait then do the 375. I’ll be doing a similar cycle with the Anavar soon unless we go full Walking Dead with this Covid-19.

@dextermorgan I feel very lucky I am isolation with a full power rack and plenty of plates to really push myself!

2 Likes

There is the notion of AR saturation impeding gains after a certain dosage… But 300 v 600mg certainly isn’t going to induce saturation at either dose. Within skeletal muscle AAS upregulate and induce the synthesis of new AR. you’d have to take a dose big enough to cancel out the effect of new AR synthesis, inducing a state of super-saturation thus a higher dose wouldn’t equate to more gains

If @trt_phoenix was right about 300mg giving identical gains to 600mg/higher dosages… Than all on the Mr Olympia could’ve gotten there on 300mg test weekly, some GH and insulin… That simply isn’t the case

In the past I’ve linked 1-2 studies that show gains in fat free mass increase within a dose dependent fashion (in which total body water in ratio to fat free mass IS taken into account)… The results still indicate a higher dose = far greater gains… but also more sides (haematological alterations become more apparent, bigger hit to cholesterol etc). For one to say perhaps the gains accrued from higher dosages are partially derived from glycogen, electrolyte retention etc… this would be a correct assumption, and this has been demonstrated within a study of athletes using 100mg dbol/day for 6 wks. To assume ALL gains past the arbitrary dosage of 300mg (above what 300mg alone would give you) are acute, glycogen mediated would be a false and unscientific statement to make.

One has NO evidence to suggest the saturation dose is 300mg, thus one would have not reason to believe all gains made past 300mg stem from water, glycogen and electrolyte retention.

3 Likes

Looks like 300 per week is good for me, I noticed I’m feeling bigger and weighed myself today, I have put on 4.5 kilos in three and a half weeks, my Abs are showing a lot more as well, I just ran through my full body workout that usually leaves me dead at the end, I did the whole thing with two extra sets on each of the seven exercises and I feel like I can do more, I nearly fainted once midway through though, this is new for me, it wasn’t from my muscles tiredness but my head getting fuzzy, is that to be expected with the extra load?

I feel like I can do more now, concerned that would be overtraining though?

That is precisely my point. 99% of the guys running cycles will never get anywhere close to an Olympia bodybuilder’s muscle mass. Those guys are able to make use of 500mg+ of Test because they have far more androgen receptors.

One final point: Muscle memory. Let’s use a normal guy that made phenomenal muscle gains after a few cycles. Let’s say legit 20lbs clean muscle. Now, let’s say he comes off and stays off an loses those 20lbs. This is the one time that running 500mg over 300mg would make it possible to regain far more quickly with the higher dose. ONLY because he previously had the muscle mass.

No they don’t, not to begin with. Might be a differentiation between AR density/sensitivity, number of cag repeats… Furthermore, anabolics steroid use induces the synthesis of more AR within skeletal muscle. This is a moot point, you’ll synthesise the new AR whilst on cycle regardless.

This goes either way, theoretically if the muscle mass is already there (it appears myonuclei developed from strength training don’t dissapate following detraining). If anything it’d hint at being able to use less to re-gain everything. This hypothesis is further backed by the pro bodybuilders who come off, use 200mg/wk for life and maintain a LOT of muscle mass, moreso than any avg Joe could hope to build on 200mg/wk alone

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for lower dosages. But attempting to discourage another by using false information/scare tactics is a tactic that is typically rendered ineffective. For a first cycle, 600mg will work better than 300mg… But it’s also riskier.

1 Like

The thing is that just have strict routine,strict diet … count your macros,regulate them by your weight,dont run after the weights if u are not sure about your technique,raise them than when u pretty sure that u feel your muscle 100%. And u will grow on minimum doses like crazy… its maraton