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First Cycle. 24 Yrs Old, 6'1", 176lbs/80kg, Bulking for Muay Thai

Hello everyone.

I am looking for some advice regarding my first cycle.

I have done a lot of research and was going to do the standard 500mg/week Test E for 12 weeks then PCT with Nolva 40/40/20/20/10/10 for 6 weeks.

A bit of background on me, I’m 24, 186cm and 80KG. I know you’ll probably say to bulk up natty but I want to bulk up fast, hence why I want to cycle. Also, I have no interest in body building, I will be consuming around 3000 calories while on cycle.

My current test levels is 749 ng/dL

I like to lift and do MuayThai. I do full body work outs with weights 4x a week and do MuayThai 4x a week also.

Have I got everything right?
I am worried about the side effects to be honest as have read a lot of horror stories lol. Are they as bad as people make out? Specifically acne as I had to use Accutane when I was younger which was a horrible experience.

I was also looking in to LGD 4033 as an alternative which i know isn’t as good and should really use a test base. I am not after being massive or anything, i just want to add some decent gains in a shorter period of time than doing it natty.

Any advice welcome, sorry if I haven’t worded it the best I’m shit at stuff like this lol.

I dont see any reason why would you need steroids for Muay Thai. Its like saying that you need a crane for your car. Can be done but why the fuck would your car need one?


Why fast? Someone your age, height, and weight could put on 20 pounds of quality size naturally in two months. Would that not be fast enough?

What’s your goal weight? What did you weigh 3 months ago? What’s your general body fat level - lean/ab definition, skinny-fat, etc.? I’m guessing/hoping you’re pretty ripped doing MT at your size.

What, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

For young underweight guys who can reach their goal without steroids? Yes, the side effects are as bad as people make out.

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Because I hate how skinny for my height I am.

I think I’d look a lot better being around 85-90kg.

I do a lot of cardio too which would hinder gains

Drugs won’t change this. If you can’t hold your gains natty you won’t hold your gains enhanced.

You don’t need steroids to consume more calories. If I was in the gym 4x a week and doing Muay Thai 4x a week on 3000 calories, I’d be malnourished. Up your caloric intake to at least 5000 a day. It doesn’t have to be totally clean. Just eat.

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If you can’t eat enough naturally then taking steroids will do you no good. You have good natural test levels, go out on more weight without having to worry about side effects or long term health issues. Get as much mileage out of your own body before looking to enhancement.

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You can gain 20lbs natty at your size. If you dont gain weight without steroids, you wont gain on them. Eating does not change. When i eat a bit less i can be in gram or more of stuff and nothing changes. If anything, you need to eat even more on steroids for them to do their job


Sounds like you have the wrong mindset right off the bat for using drugs. You def don’t need them for Maui thai and will actually find you are worse at fighting after putting on a bit of size and bloat from the drugs as your flexibility will decrease significantly. Don’t look for shortcuts, just lift heavier and eat more protein and carbs if size is what you want while still being functional.


So you want to just put on fat or do you want to put on muscle? Either can be attained with your base, the difference is that one requires eating in excess, and the other requires eating in excess + weight training. NEITHER, however, require steroids. Get your beginner gains (which can quite seriously be ~20lbs in about 2 months) and be on your way. Taking steroids to help you build muscle is like slapping a supercharger on a push-mower. It sounds great and went really fast but you didn’t really need the supercharger to start with.

You’re being naïve thinking that steroids are the answer to this. I will bombard this thread with memes I’ve already made about 20 year olds taking steroids if you need something that makes more sense to you than a logical argument.

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I was a skinny-fat hardgainer myself at your age. Until I learned to train really, really hard, correctly, and eat a lot. Then, I gained about 90% of what I’ve been able to gain by doing cycles.

Steroids bring undesirable side effects, and health risks. They should only be used when all other means of gaining have been exhausted. You have not exhausted all other means.

You can make great progress in a year with lots of heavy barabell movements and lots of food.

if you’ve already made up your mind to do the 500 Test for 12 weeks and I can’t change it, then my advice is this

EAT, EAT, and then go eat some more. All good quality food. No crap. All meats, fruits, vegetables, rice, and potatoes. Nothing else. Because you said your goal was size, please never forget that the most anabolic part of any cycle is calories. 5,000 calories/day on 250Test/wk is waaaay better than 2,500 calories a day on 500Test/wk. Or as Hank said, you can be on a gram of gear and if you’re not eating enough, you won’t gain. That should speak volumes.

The dude is doing Muay Thai… dirty bulking will be detrimental to MT performance.

As would high dosed test/aas for that matter. I could see an argument being made for a very low dose of an anabolic being thrown in (not for OP, but for an experienced MT fighter) but the cramps and painful pumps elicited from AAS use would be super, super detrimental to MT performance.

Dude is 6’1 and 176… how much heavier does he want to be? Muay Thai isn’t exactly a sport filled with big people. Most are very, very lean and wiry.

Think 5’7 and 150lbs or so but with BF% in the low teens to upper single digits. I’m sure many of them juice in the higher ranks (not like Thailand would test for it) but I’d assume the dosages would be far, far lower relative to what you’d expect from a strength athlete. We are probably talking like 10-15mg winstrol per day for a month or so

As to testosterone base? I doubt the average native MT fighter knows all that much about AAS, so they probably wouldn’t take T with whatever they’re taking.

Could be wrong though.

It’s an interesting conundrum. Anabolic steroids enhance recovery and enable you to train harder… at the same time they can make hard cardio quite difficult…

From my perspective, if I was a pro Muay Thai fighter and I had unlimited funds and wanted to use something potentially dangerous I’d rather mess around with the likes of GH and EPO. #strokecity #unlimitedstamina #bloodthickerthanlead.

As other said you sound clueless which means you will get a lot less out of a cycle than you think

Split up your training and/or train 2 times a week if doing loads of Mthai and cardio -you need to allow your body room to breathe so to speak

Something like this…

I did 5/3/1 bbb when I was doing Muay Thai, boxing and BJJ (mostly Muay Thai though)

It’s VERY simple, and it works

I’ve stuck to it even though my combat sports volume has decreased exponentially because it works, though now I can add in more assistance work.

He can be 260 like me.

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Are there many 260lb Muay Thai competitors?

What if he wants to fight competitively?

It doesnt matter how much he weighs, he would just be at the heaviest class.
A few years back i was training a lot, and i was around 220lbs, very lean. The highest weight class was 91kg+ which is like 200lbs or smth.
And in trainings i was almost the biggest one anyways. But i had a fight with a guy that was 280 and that was when i realised how much it sucked for everyone to train with me, because now i felt like a light weight. I was more in the air, than on the ground, lol. Made a mistake by trying a takedown - i smashed against his legs like i would have just been running into a street post or something. Just smashed there and stayed there :smiley:
In the heaviest class - the bigger you are, the better cuz there is no upper limit.
Its funny how on lowest classes they make a new class every 20lbs, so it would be “fair” but they have no problem letting a 200lbs fight a 280lbs in super-heavies, haha.

So every time someone bitches shit like “that dude cant fight that dude, they are a different weight class” i just lol loud. By those standards i fought a dude that was 3 weight classes higher than i was. 3-4 class difference in super-heavies is totally fine, haha.

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Martial arts is a great equaliser. Size doesn’t matter quite as much as many think when it comes to fighting

What I mean by this is… a professional boxer (or muay Thai fighter) with basic take down defence who is 140lbs will destroy most untrained 200lb+ men. I’ve seen a pro freestyle wrestler (140lbs) pin someone who was over 225lbs (novice).

Even a pro vs a heavier novice

However when we look to weight classes competitively we need to take into account the men/women in various weight classes going up against one another are likely to be of a similar skill level. Martial arts can be an equaliser… but take two guys who are equally skilled, but the one has 40lbs on the other… the heavier guy will win 9 times out of 10.

Even heavyweights… provided the excess weight isn’t just fat that weighs the dude down/makes him gas out quickly, chances are the heavyweight that is 40lbs heavier is gonna win provided skill level between both opponents is equitable.

Eh… as long as those are sedentary 200lb plus men sure. Fit men… that’s too much of a weight delta for me to agree.


Nice one mate! Bet people hate sparring you lol.

I liked the superman punch, would do some damage if it connected

Seeing as you do the sport, what age did you hop on the sauce?

I can’t actually think of a negative reason for doing a cycle for MuayThai other than possible acne/hair loss.

I think maybe doing a lower dose would be more beneficial also, such in the ranges of 300-350mg/week and just eat slightly above maintenance. I’m not looking to get bodybuilder huge, personally, I would only like to be around 85kg as don’t want to loose too much of my speed but think the sauce would help with motivation and recovery massively.

Just look at TRT Vitor lol he was a fucking beast, Overeem, Lesnar, Jon Jones… they were all on the sauce!