Finished a 5x5, Time for a Routine Switch

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Height, weight, lifts, reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?[/quote]

What?[/quote]
How tall are you?
How much do you weight?
How much do you lift on the primary lifts?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?[/quote]

5.9 194lb

(1RM)
315 bench, 300 Squat, 400 Deadlift, 160 Press.

Because i want to even out weakness - back, shoulders, and bicep growth is not on par with chest tri’s and legs.

Dude, you have been making threads about how to get your arms jacked, but you squat less than you bench.

Fail.

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Dude, you have been making threads about how to get your arms jacked, but you squat less than you bench.

Fail.[/quote]

So what? You don’t know me? I might have had injuries ect… If you have nothing productive to say keep off my thread. What’s the point in flaming others hiding behind your computer screen? Don’t be a twat.

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
How about a standard BB split where your main lifts are in the 4-6 rep range and your accessory lifts are in the 6-8 rep range?

Here and there you can throw in a 20 rep squat and some singles and triples on deadlift when you really wanna kill it.

Pretty simple stuff.[/quote]

Looks good! any page/ program you could recommend dude?

Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting

All of these lifts will be ramped, for each bodypart. All the sets should start with a weight that is semi difficult to get 6 or 8 times so you can keep ramping.

Chest

BB Bench- 4x6
DB Incline- 3x8
DB flies or cable flies- 3x8

Back/Bi’s

Deadlift- 5,5,3,3
BB Rows- 4x6
DB Curlz- 3x8 with the TOP weight, don’t count your lighter sets in the 3x8 IMO.
EZ Bar Curlz- 3x8
Lat pulldowns- 3x8
V-Grip cable rows- 3x8

Legs

Squats- 4x6
Lunges- 3x8
Hamstring Curls- 3x8

Shoulders/Tri’s

Standing Overhead Press- 4x6
Shrugs- 4x6
EZ bar Skullcrushers- 3x8
Rope Pushdowns- 3x8 Yes, you can ramp these too.
DB or Cable Lateral raises- 3x8
Reverse Cable Flies- 3x8

There, a simple Bodybuilding 4-day split. Eat to grow and be sure to get good stimulation on ALL the sets on ALL the lifts and you’ll progress.

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[/quote]

Lol…immature and disrespectful? More like frustrated and agitated, I mean come on, you want to be spoon fed. Do some research.

“RECOMMEND ME ONE”…how lazy are you? Maybe take a look through the website and make a decision.

Why argue with fools? if you want to bring up Bi’s getting your squat more than your bench is not going to help.

There are some decent bodybuilding routines on google if you don’t want to follow any CT’s or Ian King’s from here.

The major flaw I see in your programming is you put the areas your trying to bring up towards the end of your workouts. It possible it will help but you would be much better off putting it top of your list. They should be first muscle group trained that day if not the first.

If you’ve plateaued on the 5x5 at 315 means your close to your peak physical condition at the mental and nutritional desire you put into this. You can slowly creep up through the years or you can start to work on your weaknesses. Focus on improving your diet, looks like you may need more calories and protein. Learn about recovery, and pushing harder then you have before.

Cycling the weights on a weekly or bi-weekly basis may help you better than adding a rep (Why 5/3/1 is so successful). Adding a rep or a lbs is novice level of progression, to really break the 315 barrier you have to learn to push extra hard on days when you have the energy, and to focus on other skills or muscle groups when you don’t.

If your really more into bodybuilding then the numbers game try 3 months of a bodybuilding routines, I’m talking 5 days a week, with drop sets and pre-fatigue and circuits then go back to the 5x5.

Drop sets? Pre-fatigue and circuits? What’s wrong with just ramping up?

haven’t read whole thread, sorry. This has probably been mentioned but 5/3/1 for BBing will be a great progression from 5x5.

[quote]JT111 wrote:
Just finished a 5x5 program, and want to switch up (mainly because all my lifts have plateaued and the progression has stopped.
My main aim is to specifically bring up biceps thickness, back, and shoulders. I am aiming for pure hypertrophy mainly.

Was thinking of doing something like this…

Bench, 3x8
DB Bench Press 3x8
Dips 3xFailure.

Bent Over Rows, 3x8
Rack Pulls 3x8
Chins 3xFailure

Squats, 5x12
Leg Press 5x10
Deadlifts 5x3
Chins 3xF
Incline reverse curls 3xF

Standing OHP 3x8
DB Lat Raise 3x8
Close Grip Bench 3x8
Overhead triceps ext (with EZ bar) 3x8
Standing Bar curls 3x8
DB Curl 3x8

Progression… Will be adding an extra rep every workout upto 12, which i 'll then increase the weight.

What are you thoughts on this? Is it balanced enough? Have you seen any other routines that specialise in my weaker areas? I have tried search here but couldnt find much…
Just for details i 'm 190lbs, 14ish% BF and have been lifting for a year.[/quote]

And also remember in the strongest shall survive Bill Starr recommended rotating the 5x5 to 5x10, 5x3 and 5x5 on various exercises to stop stagnation. You can also be creative and use variations of the big exercises, so flat bench can become weighted dips, incline and barbells can be swapped for dumbbells etc. wide squats can become close squats in olympic weightlifting shoes or safety bar squats, belt squats, front squats etc etc, so with a range of exercises and rep schemes there really is plenty of scope.

This way if the system is producing results on one exercise e.g squat is moving bench isn’t, you stay with the upper body program 5x5 and swap the squat for the safety bar squat and or start varying the reps over the course of each workout, you can also add assistance work/exercises and manipulate volume, so a 5x3 day on the squat could leave you some room to supplement with KB swings, dead lifts for reps etc.

You said you want big biceps but there’s no point abandoning a routine thats working, overall size and strength is the key here, plus enough food to grow big on, adding extra sets of chins and arm curls will be a good addition.

Use the force, and your creativity :wink:

[quote]Tatsu wrote:
Drop sets? Pre-fatigue and circuits? What’s wrong with just ramping up?[/quote]

How do you ramp up from a plateau? If you could it wouldn’t be a plateau. At 195 4/3/3 lifts he’s basically reached average non-juiced gym rat numbers, which is good enough to look like a stud at the local pool but still time to think of how to separate yourself from the pack.

If it’s sticking to powerlifting then I would say other methods like partial lifts, since it’s bodybuilding you use ways to hit the muscle more intensely. I understand T-Nation forums and forum heroes are all about the definition of ramping the last 2 years but in the real world, bodies are built using way more rep/weight schemes than basic ramping. That’s not to cut down the idea of ramping but that’s only one tool in the box, what I listed are other tools. A properly executed 5x5 will give you similar body response as most ramping workouts. So what would you go through another 3 month routine of the same thing to gain what 5lbs on the bench? a millimeter on the bicep?

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[/quote]
Want to be spoon fed? How about you do this routine instead of that dumb one?

Or as Buddahboy said, 5/3/1.
If you bench more than you squat you either have an injured back, knees or you’re being a sissy.
Man up and squat.
FYI: Socratic method is not for you, you completely failed to see the point of answering the questions. They were supposed to give us a better understanding of your training history, direction and the REASONS why you had decided not to do any of the wonderful programs laid out in this forum. What it boils down to is… you’re lazy.

I really don’t see why its so hard to do a bit of research if you’re looking for a new routine instead of starting 3 threads, 1 in the beginners section and 2 in bodybuilding asking pretty similar questions.
More helpful?

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Why argue with fools? if you want to bring up Bi’s getting your squat more than your bench is not going to help.

There are some decent bodybuilding routines on google if you don’t want to follow any CT’s or Ian King’s from here.

The major flaw I see in your programming is you put the areas your trying to bring up towards the end of your workouts. It possible it will help but you would be much better off putting it top of your list. They should be first muscle group trained that day if not the first.

If you’ve plateaued on the 5x5 at 315 means your close to your peak physical condition at the mental and nutritional desire you put into this. You can slowly creep up through the years or you can start to work on your weaknesses. Focus on improving your diet, looks like you may need more calories and protein. Learn about recovery, and pushing harder then you have before.

Cycling the weights on a weekly or bi-weekly basis may help you better than adding a rep (Why 5/3/1 is so successful). Adding a rep or a lbs is novice level of progression, to really break the 315 barrier you have to learn to push extra hard on days when you have the energy, and to focus on other skills or muscle groups when you don’t.

If your really more into bodybuilding then the numbers game try 3 months of a bodybuilding routines, I’m talking 5 days a week, with drop sets and pre-fatigue and circuits then go back to the 5x5.[/quote]

Makes sense dude! thanks alot for the advice!

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[/quote]
Want to be spoon fed? How about you do this routine instead of that dumb one?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/do_this_routine_instead_of_that_dumb_one
Or as Buddahboy said, 5/3/1.
If you bench more than you squat you either have an injured back, knees or you’re being a sissy.
Man up and squat.
FYI: Socratic method is not for you, you completely failed to see the point of answering the questions. They were supposed to give us a better understanding of your training history, direction and the REASONS why you had decided not to do any of the wonderful programs laid out in this forum. What it boils down to is… you’re lazy.

I really don’t see why its so hard to do a bit of research if you’re looking for a new routine instead of starting 3 threads, 1 in the beginners section and 2 in bodybuilding asking pretty similar questions.
More helpful?[/quote]

Fuck off.

[quote]buddaboy wrote:
And also remember in the strongest shall survive Bill Starr recommended rotating the 5x5 to 5x10, 5x3 and 5x5 on various exercises to stop stagnation. You can also be creative and use variations of the big exercises, so flat bench can become weighted dips, incline and barbells can be swapped for dumbbells etc. wide squats can become close squats in olympic weightlifting shoes or safety bar squats, belt squats, front squats etc etc, so with a range of exercises and rep schemes there really is plenty of scope.

This way if the system is producing results on one exercise e.g squat is moving bench isn’t, you stay with the upper body program 5x5 and swap the squat for the safety bar squat and or start varying the reps over the course of each workout, you can also add assistance work/exercises and manipulate volume, so a 5x3 day on the squat could leave you some room to supplement with KB swings, dead lifts for reps etc.

You said you want big biceps but there’s no point abandoning a routine thats working, overall size and strength is the key here, plus enough food to grow big on, adding extra sets of chins and arm curls will be a good addition.

Use the force, and your creativity ;-)[/quote]

I hadn’t thought of that… 5x5 worked real well so i might give that a shot! Thanks alot for the suggestions!!

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[/quote]
Want to be spoon fed? How about you do this routine instead of that dumb one?

Or as Buddahboy said, 5/3/1.
If you bench more than you squat you either have an injured back, knees or you’re being a sissy.
Man up and squat.
FYI: Socratic method is not for you, you completely failed to see the point of answering the questions. They were supposed to give us a better understanding of your training history, direction and the REASONS why you had decided not to do any of the wonderful programs laid out in this forum. What it boils down to is… you’re lazy.

I really don’t see why its so hard to do a bit of research if you’re looking for a new routine instead of starting 3 threads, 1 in the beginners section and 2 in bodybuilding asking pretty similar questions.
More helpful?[/quote]

Fuck off.[/quote]
You don’t seem to understand how I’m trying to help so I will refrain from cluttering your thread further. Good luck with your goals and I hope you achieve the physique you are looking for.

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:

[quote]JT111 wrote:

[quote]LazyElemental wrote:
Why do you bench more than you squat?
What are you reasons for not doing any of the very good and highly recommended routines?
I feel like I’m babysitting[/quote]

Well if they are so “highly recommended” RECOMMEND ME ONE instead of posting meaningless unhelpful rubbish on the thread. I did say i wanted something to bring up lagging parts, - Legs Back, Shoulders, Bi. Do you have a problem with this? If so why do you even bother with forums if you obviously have no interest in helping anyone. You may feel like your “babysitting”…SO? Who cares? Why not just post something helpful? TBH mate if anyone is acting like a baby its you for being so immature and disrespectful. Grow up.

RE: Why do you bench more than you squat?
Naturally I have a strong chest, and i find the squatting movement difficult.

[/quote]
Want to be spoon fed? How about you do this routine instead of that dumb one?

Or as Buddahboy said, 5/3/1.
If you bench more than you squat you either have an injured back, knees or you’re being a sissy.
Man up and squat.
FYI: Socratic method is not for you, you completely failed to see the point of answering the questions. They were supposed to give us a better understanding of your training history, direction and the REASONS why you had decided not to do any of the wonderful programs laid out in this forum. What it boils down to is… you’re lazy.

I really don’t see why its so hard to do a bit of research if you’re looking for a new routine instead of starting 3 threads, 1 in the beginners section and 2 in bodybuilding asking pretty similar questions.
More helpful?[/quote]

Fuck off.[/quote]
You don’t seem to understand how I’m trying to help so I will refrain from cluttering your thread further. Good luck with your goals and I hope you achieve the physique you are looking for.
[/quote]

Sorry it didn’t quite come across that way. I welcome help - hence, the thread. However you’ve not exactly come across as if you are trying to help me… I know i need to bring my squat up, and i have funny knees… Just dont take your frustration out on me because others here are ignorant and never squat or listen ect. I do, i just cant handle heavy weights. - I tend to go for volume 12-20.

If you were trying to help me a appreciate it, sorry if i misunderstood you.

[quote]JT111 wrote:

Sorry it didn’t quite come across that way. I welcome help - hence, the thread. However you’ve not exactly come across as if you are trying to help me… I know i need to bring my squat up, and i have funny knees… Just dont take your frustration out on me because others here are ignorant and never squat or listen ect. I do, i just cant handle heavy weights. - I tend to go for volume 12-20.

If you were trying to help me a appreciate it, sorry if i misunderstood you.[/quote]
I think this shows that you are more deserving of my patience then I was giving to you. Since your goal is hypertrophy I would suggest listing to some of the body building advice listed in this forum and the T-cell. They are definitely the best resources. My personal favorites are the
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/do_this_routine_instead_of_that_dumb_one?id=4404649&pageNo=0 thread (some seriously good routines in here) and the round tables found in the T-cell. (May have to dig for them a little bit, but they are all of the big strong guys in the forum commenting on how they got big)
They Akuma01 threads that have been bumped recently in the bodybuilding forum are excellent as well. They are the same kind of round tables, but available to all of us.
I apologize if I managed to offend, we get a lot of one hit wonders and my temper has run a bit short recently. The only real weaknesses I see from your original routine would be hamstrings, rear deltoids and upper chest. Some read delt raises, Sumo leg press/RDL and incline press are my recommendations, such as they are. (Seriously though, I suggest trying out what has brought others like kingbeef much success!)