Finaplix PCT Help

I’m currently running 100mg day of trenboone acetate(finaplix) I am taking it transdermally(DMSO gel) so I figure at 40% absorbtion then that is 40mg/day. I am not running test or anything else. Just the fina. I know I’m going to get flamed but I have some very good reasons for doing this(legal, the wife would kill me if she knew I took any juice, etc) Right now I am taking 1.2 grams of Vitex a day and 300g of vitamin b6 to help fight off any prolactin induced gyno.

My mood sucks and my sex drive is low but other than that the sides are not bad.I work overseas and have lots of cialis, and cabergoline for those sides. I also have lots of clomid for PCT. Just wondering if I need to add something. I also have a box of testosterone patches.(my dad passed away and I found these) Should I take these at the end of my cycle and if so should I worry about estrogen buildup or since these patches don’t have much in them will it matter? Any help will be much appreciated.

Stats- 6 ft. 1
220 lbs.
35 yrs. old
13% bodyfat

2nd ever cycle - 1st was 15 yrs. ago

You don’t need to worry about gyno with tren because it is a non aromatizing androgen. And when I say androgen I mean extremely androgenic. Technically you should have a libido that scares any women that gets near you while on tren. Vitex is an herb usually found in women’s formulas to help balance there hormone levels while in menopause or pre-menopause. It is used in libido formulas for women but not usually for men.

Going back to the tren, decreased sex drive is usually caused by taking high anabolic low androgen drugs without an accompaning highly androgenic compound. How long have you been on the tren and what have your gains been so far? At 40 mgs of absorption Ed you should be extremely happy with the results. If not, I would question how much you are truly absorbing. Did you have a low sex drive before the tren?

I used tren a few times and noticed that if I kept my dosage lower (ie. 50mg EOD) I had a great sex drive, but when I tried 150mg EOD my sex drive went to shit after a few weeks. I heard people say that tren can have the same effect as deca since there is no test involved and its very supressive.

Well, you said that you know you are going to get flamed. So you shouldn’t take this too bad.
Your “very good reasons” for not taking test (legal, wife, ect.) are very good reasons not to take anything. Using finaplix with DMSO is a half-ass way to use trenbolone anyway. Convert it and inject it, unless you are scared of needles. And if you are, there is another good reason not to use.

That being said …
(a)Tren will kill your libido, (b)tren is a progestin, and (c)tren will lower T3 and possibly increase prolactin(although I don’t know the mechanism of this).
(a)Tren kills libido by suppressing your natural test through androgen binding. No test, no libido.

(b)Now although tren does not aromatize, it is a progesterone agonist … progesterone in the presence of estrogen can cause gyno (add that to prolactin build-up and you can have a problem). But with only tren (and no test) this shouldn’t be an issue.

(c)The prolactin threat comes from the lack of T3. A dopamine receptor agonist (like cabergoline) will help this.
As far as PCT goes, you need to worry about restarting your own natural test production. I would say use nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) instead of clomid (clomiphene citrate) but since you have clomid you can use that with your cabergoline … maybe add in some Alpha Male. That should be sufficient. You could try using the test or andro patches for pct in a kind of test taper, but unless you are careful you might just prolong suppression. So I wouldn’t recommend it. Hope this helps.

Lattisimus-

1st of all you say transdermally is a half assed way to take tren and I shouldn’t take nothing at all if I don’t inject- Fact is I make 6 figures and can afford to “waste” tren by only getting 30-40% absorbtion- It is only $35 a for 100 pellets so I can easily afford to take more per day.

I have 1000 pellets so I’m not concerned with wasting some tren- I am not scared of needles but don’t want to go through the trouble of converting-I live in a small town and I don’t know anyone who does gear, sells gear and what not- I work overseas two months at a time thus I can take it for 8 weeks without the wife knowing any better or having to worry about getting into any legal troubles by ordering gear from so called legit sources-

All I did was go to the local co-op and get all the fina I needed- I researched the heck out of tren/fina and figured this was the best thing for ME- I don’t need(or want) to get much bigger as I am pretty much bigger than a lot of guys taking a bunch of gear anyway-(Ex. - I constanly see posts of guys 25yrs old who are 5 ft. 9 and weigh 180 pounds loading up on gear- Those are the guys who need to get flamed-)

I’m pretty much at my natural limit- I chose tren because of the lean mass it helps to put on and keep on, as well as helping with overall bodyfat- Thanks for your other comments although I thought Nolva worked mainly as an anti-estrogen. Since tren doesn’t aromitize that is why I didn’t get any Nolva.

My main concern is getting the “twins” working properly again- thus the clomid for PCT. If Nolva is better for that, then I will get some. As for vita - my research said tren shuts down sex drive hard since prolactin levels rise. Thus the vitex. Vitex lowers prolactin levels as does the B6. So far I have been on the tren for 4 weeks and my strength is really starting to skyrocket.

I feel and look much harder. The only other side has been insomnia but I’ve always had this problem- Thanks for the advise but don’t be so quick to flame guys for doing something you wouldn’t. We all have our own reasons and should be here to help each other instead of flaming one another-

Clomid
Pharmaceutical Name: Clomiphene (as citrate)
Molecular weight of base: 405.9663
Molecular weight of ester: 192.125 (citric acid, 6 carbons)
Effective dose: 100-150 mg/day orally


Nolvadex
Pharmaceutical Name: Tamoxifen (as citrate)
Molecular weight of base: 371.5212
Molecular weight of ester: 192.125 (citric acid, 6 carbons)
Effective dose: 20-40 mg / day orally

Info:
While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and Nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.

But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because Nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids.

After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody’s best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible.

Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That’s basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.

Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference.

Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.

This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of Nolva or 100 mg/day of clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex.

The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.

So which one should you use? Well personally, I’d have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective.

But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that Tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.

Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.

Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn’t enough) is because it’s a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn’t have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that’s mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose.

But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.

Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made.

For this reason one may opt to try clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case Nolva remains the weapon of choice. It’s a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That’s life, nothing is free.

Stacking and Use:
If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it is best stacked with Proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration as well.

Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same manner as described above.

Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately, even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after the last injection was given.

The length of the therapy will vary as well, from 3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex is discontinued.

For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin), which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually 1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid. The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural testicle function.

But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex, doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional two weeks.

Here is an idea for all you finaplix-pellet-smashing-DMSO-lathering-people:
Not that I like to promote other supplement companies, but ergopharm makes a product called “SKULPT”. It’s main ingredients are: Yohimbine, Octopamine, Theophyllamine,
6-OXO (4-etioallocholen-3,6,17-trione).

All of this is in a DMSO suspension to be administered as a topical spray (much like the old andro sprays … except they didn’t use dmso). ANYWAY! You can crush up your fina pellets and put them in the bottle and spray your fina on like some did in the past.

Recommended dosing for the product is 7 sprays 2x/day, and that is a 30 day supply. SO, you can do the math (maybe not) but if you want around 100mg/day you can crush up 3000mg tren pellets into the solution and each 7 sprays should deliver around 50mg tren.

Of course, you will encounter some of the same problems that most did with the andro sprays, and that is clogging of the spray apparatus … but then you could always filter the solution.
Just a suggestion for something to try.