T Nation

Finally Ready... I Think

After a long time sitting on the fence about it, I have finally decided to try my first cycle. Even though I feel I have spent considerable time reading and researching, both here and at mesomorphosis, I still feel like there is much I do not fully understand. I know I may get flamed if people do not think I have at least tried to figure stuff out for myself, but I will not know unless I ask. First, since I know I will probably be asked for it anyway, I will give some info on myself.

Age: 29
Years training: 10
Weight when I started: 145
Current weight: 205
Bodyfat: I am guessing somewhere in the 12-14% range maybe a little lower.
Height: 6 ft 4(yes, tall, skinny ectomorph)

PR bench: 255
PR squat: 295
PR deadlift: 415

Goals: I am mainly interested in strength gains, while adding a few pounds of extra muscle, I would like to keep about 10-15lbs of muscle post-cycle. I would like to avoid gaining too rapidly or any obvious physical side effects (bloating, acne etc.) because it is fairly important that it is not too apparent that I am using.

Now, on to the proposed cycle options. I have a source set up who is recommending I run 2 amps/week of Sust, stacked with Deca for 8 weeks, which is similar to other beginner cycles that I have seen but I have decided I do not really want to go with Deca. The orals I have available to me are Dianabol and Winstrol. In his drug profile of Sustanon 250, Bill Roberts mentions that a steroid novice could very well put on 20 pounds just taking 250mg/week for 8 weeks, but this is contrary to what I have read on some forum posts. Even Bill says on some posts that less than 500mg/week is a waste. If I could get away with just 1 amp a week that would be great, but I do not want to waste my money. I am leaning towards just doing Sust at 500mg/ week, but I would be curious to hear what kind of gains the vets think a beginner might get from just 250mg/week. I am also curious to know if suppression would a problem at that low of a dose. Obviously, if I go with 500mg/week, I plan to use Nolvadex during the cycle (10mg EOD starting week 2) and Clomid, post-cycle (50mg/day for 3 weeks). I was also thinking of either stacking with oral Winstrol, or doing a slightly shorter cycle of Sust (6 weeks) and then switching to Winny taken just in the morning while natural test recovers for 1-2 weeks.

As I said, my knowledge is by no means extensive. I have done lots of reading, but I still feel confused and worry that I maybe misinterpreting some things. So, go ahead and give me your advice/criticisms.

To begin, I like your choice of dropping Deca. I think to many people feel the need to stack to much during their first cycle. I’m into my 4th week of a Test only cycle and the results are great. I’ll be using Winstrol later in my cycle to help with some strength and weight issues but by the time I start it I’ll already have a good idea of what 500mg/week of Test does to me. Stick with a base of Test and see how your body reacts.
Secondly, I know Sustenon is a very popular choice and I had even planned on running it. Enanthate or Cypionate is going to give you better results. There isn’t as much flucuation of blood levels if you shoot it every 3 or 4 days as compared to the complexity of Sust with it’s many blends.
250mg/week of ANY Test is to small. It’s hardly more than a therapy dose and you won’t see much of a result. 500mg should be the minimum you go with but you never know, it’s possible you’ll see gains you’re happy with @ 250mg… You can always start there and bump it up later if you don’t feel like you’re making enough gains.
If you’re going to do a cycle, don’t do it half assed. Run at LEAST an 8 week cycle as you won’t see results for 2 weeks anway. 12 weeks is probably idea for a first Test only cycle.
The hardest part I found when researching my first cycle was the wealth of knowledge and how much of it conflicted. My best advice is to read the boards, find a few users you see many people asking questions to, and research their answers. In the end it’ll come down to a mix of thier info, and your wants/needs. I used Prisoner22 on this board.
The most confusing part I found to be was PCT. There are SO many schools of thought on the subject and so many opinions of Nolva, Clomid, Arimidex, HCG, etc. I like the idea of taking your Nolva throughout the cycle. If you go with Sust, take your Clomid 3 weeks to the day after your last inject. For Enan and Cyp, take it 2 weeks.
Post your cycle up when you’ve got it nailed down a bit more and I’m sure you’ll get plenty of feedback. Sorry for the length of the post, hope it helped.

Yeah, I pretty much knew I should be taking at least 500mg, but right now that will mean waiting until I have more disposable income. I think I will end up just running 500mg of Sust, but I may end up stacking with Winstrol. I was wondering if I should frontload the Sust and if so, how much should I take in the first week? 750mg? 1000mg?

I would recommend a 6-8 week cycle of test, and deca, optionally with dbol, with an anti-aromatase.

Frontload test at 1000mg, and weekly dose at 500mg (doesn’t matter whether it’s cyp, enan, or sust). Frontload the deca at 400mg, and weekly dose at 200mg. This frontloading will kick the drug levels up to more efficate levels quickly. If you want to get more results than just the injectables will allow, just 20mg of dbol daily will give great returns with little side effects.

The reason why I say use the deca with the test is because of synergy. Deca and test will yield a better result than test alone. Deca will also help your joints and support a heavy lifting schedule for your 6-8 weeks. Deca binds to the AR more avidly than test. Deca will decrease IGF binding protein and test will increase IGF, the net result being higher active IGF in your system. Sure deca is suppressive, but so is test at 500mg…

If you go with the dbol, your strength levels will increase rapidly and you will gain mass rather quickly. As well, the powerful anti-glucocorticoid effects of the dianabol will support greater muscle mass gains than just the deca and test run alone.

Don’t do a test only cycle, it’s not quite a waste but certainly not the most efficate use of drugs. The key to great muscle gains from steroid use is SYNERGY. Use compounds which support each other through different mechanisms of action…

If you’re going to do a cycle certainly do it right. If you do this cycle as a beginner, you could expect to gain ~20lbs of mass, with at least 10-15 lean mass kept post cycle. Don’t forget an anti-E and pct with clomid/nolva.

You could get some good gains with sost@250 per week. I did that for my first cycle with great results. Optimally, I would run some nandrolone with it.

No offense, but test at 250mg/week is little more than a replacement dosage. Now that is a waste of gear; not only will it sabotage your natural test production, it will shortchange you of the great gains you could get off your first cycle… You’d be much better off running a trib/avena stack of some sort.

My first cycle was test 250 and deca 200 with frontload for 6 weeks. And yes, I did grow (gained ~10lbs lean mass) but oh sh*t could I have grown SO MUCH MORE if I had done test @ 500 and deca at the 200. Too bad for me, but it’s not too late for you! Do the cycle I recommended above, and you will NOT be disappointed.

Come on, if you’re going to jab a needle in your ass for the first time, you might as well get something great out of it!

If you have access to all of the drugs Archaic talked then run a revised version of his first cycle. You said you are not looking for completly freak like gains so why not go with something like:
Test 250mg w1-7
Deca 200mg w1-7
D-bol 20mg ed w1-4
Winny 50mg ed w5-8
have some nolva on hand and start pct on week 7.
But, on the real I’m a complete rookie to this and you would probably be much better off taking archaic’s advise over mine. I just always play it safe with and start small with the drugs I take. So be safe and get big.

I like Archaic’s cycle, except I would increase the deca fronload to 800mgs and drop it two weeks before your cycle ends. It is going to be in your system for quite a while when your cycle is supposed to be over if you don’t.

Oh and gaining 15 pounds of muscle in 2 months is definately possible, but in my experience it’s noticable and pretty obvious unless you wear a lot of baggy clothes. Unless your friends and coworkers are morons, they are going to know what’s up.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I’ll mull things over and let you know what cycle I end up doing.

Ok I’ve done some thinking and I have pretty much decided to follow Archaic’s advice. Frontload the Test at 1000mg and then drop to 500mg. As for the Deca I’m undecided. I’ve read many comments about “Deca dick”, but I was under the impression that this isn’t a problem if you’re running it with some kind of Test. Is this an accurate statement? I definitely do not want to run the risk of limp dick problems, but I do usually run into joint problem with prolonged periods of heavy lifting, which Deca should help. What would be a good alternative to stack instead of Deca?

Test 1000mg w1
EQ 800mg w1
Test 500mg w1-8
D-bol 20-30mg ed w1-4
Winny 50-75mg ed w5-8

Take .25 mg of Arimdex EOD through out till week 10.

Week 11 start clomid theropy

Also after week 3 start taking 250iu of HCG on sat and sun to keep the boys in check.

you’ll probably get 20lbs gain and keep 15lbs post cycle.

if you do it, you have to do it right; thats my advice

Deca dick is only a problem with cycles not containing testosterone, or for dumbasses who fail to account for the long lasting decanoate ester when they plan their PCT.