T Nation

Final Approach--1st Cycle

Ok, so I told you all I’d post before I began my first cycle. I’m on the final approach to my first cycle. Most gear in hand (all the test and most of the tren, with another bottle on the way), pins, etc.

I opted to do a test/tren cycle, no masteron. The hair loss sides I heard about from guys who’d done it locally did not enthuse me. Also, cost ended up being an issue at the end, contrary to first plans. Oh well.

So, 8 weeks:

Test Prop 525 mg/week. injected ED
Tren Ace 350 mg ish/week ED. Cut the tren after 7 weeks

Then test stasis-taper with the prop. 4 week- 4 week.
Cabergoline and finasteride on hand.

Not firm on that, but I’m going to start at 300 mg for the first few weeks (43 mg/day) and then up the dose. This will be done because I was a bit short on the tren (1 more on the way, but short on $$ for more) and also because I want to up the dose for my strength training block vs. my visual training block – see below and my T-Alpha thread.

Training is going to be done in blocks-

  1. Visual training block – mass/visual weak spots (V-Taper). 4 weeks, last week is a down week to heal me and prep me for my strength block. High frequency, higher volume, isolation work for chest/biceps/lat width/lateral delts in addition to big compounds

  2. Strength training block – uber intense PL /performance work. High frequency, lower volume. big movements, not much isolation. 4 weeks, last week is a recovery week.

This means I’ll hit my Max “test day” on the day after my last injection of prop (Monday week 9). No tren, but I should be fresh and still have all the prop in my system. I’ll resume “normal style” WSB split on week 9.

Does this look like a productive cycle to everyone?

If I find some extra $$ I may grab a 4th tren ace vial.

No adex/nolva on hand. HOWEVER, I have immediate and unrestricted access to a buddy’s stash of nolva if anything should rear up to tide me over while the adex arrives. Disappointed about this but 1) my source forgot to order me adex when obtaining the other items and 2) he doesn’t think I’ll have any problems with these doses.

OK, now, I plan to inject 2 doses of test only in the 4 days prior to the official start of the cycle (HOPEFULLY next monday, not for sure yet). This is because my source has informed me that the test I bought has a really high BA content and gave him some problems, even though it’s dosed at 100 mg/mL instead of 200 mg/mL. As I’m a newb, it’s probably going to be worse for me than for him. He didn’t like the idea of me pinning every day based on the idea that the soreness would be too serious. yes I am rotating sites, but I am also on a high frequency plan for both upper and lower.

I want to assess the injection soreness before I start pinning myself everyday. If it’s going to hamper my workouts I need to know beforehand so I can cut it with oil and avoid most of the pain, so I can do my training as planned. Therefore I am going to inject 4 days prior and 2 days prior to “cycle start” to assess pain/soreness and try to find an appropriate combination of oil added to the original prop.

Planned injection sites-- glutes, ventroglute, leg, lats. Also, question-- how much volume can be safely/“painlessly” injected into the leg at one time? I’ve heard various numbers. I figure if I have to, I can pin the tren separately into my lats and shoulders since it’s only going to be a max of .66 mL at a time. I’d rather pin just once altogether though.

Any problems with this plan?


Since you’re losing your virginity on this one I am less Ok with you not having the proper ancillaries on hand. Any reason you don’t just order some anastrozole or tamoxifen from an RC place. You should have it within a week if not much faster.

Having said that yes, you probably will be fine at those doses; but since you don’t know for sure why not be prepared as much as possible.

If you are the size I surmise you are your body should tolerate 2-3cc’s in the glute, ventro and quad [if that’s what you meant by leg]. I’ve never done lats myself. I also never have done more than 1.5cc in a delt but that is more of a choice than a necessity; 2cc could be doable for you in a delt.

thanks saps

yeah, the adex is coming, no worries. The source is also giving me use of his nolva stash until it arrives since it was his ordering error in the first place (i told him very specifically to get adex for me along with the tren).

haha, I dunno how much I resemble the size you’re thinking of, but regardless I really doubt I could fit 1.5 cc’s in my delts – at least I’m much more anxious about pinning there what with all the the tissues there than I would be with my lats.

I’d like to get some more money for extra tren… and it looks like it might be possible now… got some good new today. I’ll have to wait to be sure.

looks alot like my cycle but I had the tren at half yours

try cutting the tren at week 6 instead of 7 give yourself 2 weeks with just plain test before you do your pct

I was pumping 1.5cc in my delts and tris with no problem
1cc was perfect no pain at all
I tried quads they were fine untill I hit a nerv in one of my legs and I felt a shock run up the side of my body,whoops wrong place :wink:
my glutes I can not do I get a knot in my ass for a week and it itches and burns like its infected .

I tried 2 ccs in my delts with little pain and sorness nothing a hot shower couldnt handle

1.5ccs would be the sweet spot for me anyways.
you will get used to it the first few times may be sore but youll be alright

Delts are a classic IM site. How often do we get medical shots in the delt; frequently.

Maybe its the way you phrased this but I want you to understand something. You said i told him very specifically to get adex for me along with the tren. If you meant you specifically wanted tren and adex fine, so be it. If you meant you wanted adex because you are going to be on tren then we have a slight issue.

Tren gyno will not be dealt with properly merely from anastrozole. I know you’re running prop and thus the anastrozole is a good standby product to have. But should you get specific gyno from then tren and not the test then anastrozole will not be your savior.

Tren gyno is much rarer than typical test or estrogen or aromatization gyno [whatever we wanna call it]. But when it hits its due to excess prolactin; something anastrozole does not deal with. You’d need caber or bromo to handle nor19 gyno.

Chances of tren gyno are very small but they are present. I don’t get any gyno but if you wanna be prepared and cover every and all bases you need to know you’re not quite there yet. 95% says you won’t need bromo or caber. If you wanna play those odds than you’re probably set.

I definitely could have phrased it better.

I meant I wanted adex and tren. I am under no assumptions about tren estrogen related gyno-- I’ve already got cabergoline on hand for the possible though unlikely tren gyno.

Thanks bud. Thanks both of you.

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OK…you are thinking you will be able to tolerate the High BA content…I am going to tell you flat out this probably will not be the case…I have had 2 separate experiences with injecting benzyl alcohol…I spelled it out so nothing is lost in the abbreviation…it makes a great paint stripper fyi…when injected in your glute you feel like you were kicked by a mule…in a delt…lol…you are a flat out cripple…forget even working out…

now here is where years and years of experience come into play…I am a 44 yr old and quite accomplished in P/L’ing spanning 25 years and still going so please heed what I tell you…there is absolutely NO and I mean NO reason to take U/L Test…its far too widely available in human grade form to mess with crap created in someones basement in Croatia…get it in an amp from a global pharma manufacturer or simply don’t get it…amen

I’ve always been impressed with your additions to the forums, Aragorn. You are obviously a very smart guy, no sarcasm whatsoever. Forgive me if you’ve covered this elsewhere, as I haven’t read every detail in your other threads about this cycle.

Why, for a first cycle, are you combining tren with test? I don’t ever recall reading a vet, or anyone associated with using AAS, advising or recommending a first cycle with tren. Why not take the ‘baby steps’ and save the more complicated steroid for a more advanced cycle?

Again, apologies, if you’ve already covered this.

I’d like to reiterate the importance of the a’dex, and your dosing of the test-p. The words ‘It’s been said I won’t need a’dex for the dose I’m using’ have been very unfortunate last words before gyno set in. One of the more intelligent guys around here, KSman, suggests a’dex no matter the dosing of the test, in order to optimize your results, on top of circumventing any possible estrogen related sides.

Good luck!

I am glad to see you are waiting until your adex arrives to begin, smart move. But then again you are a smart guy. I am along with 5.0 as to why you chose test/tren for your first cycle. No doubt a very strong cycle but not one that I would ever recommend to a first time user. You understand the compounds and how to handle the sides and I hope all turns out well for yourself. You mentioned earlier wanting to up the tren ace dosage, I personally think that you have more than enough right now. Actually you could drop it to 300mg/week and still get awesome results.

Keep us posted.

I used to subscribe to the graduate up the ranks ideology myself. Now I don’t. Having gone up the ranks so to speak I sort of wish I had tried certain things earlier.

I believer Prisoner himself used Tren Ace on his first go around.

Certainly there is a reason for starting with the plain jane Test only. I won’t fault a guy for going that route. Equally true I won’t fault a guy for stacking three even four compounds on his virgin run. We all end up there anyway.

Conventional wisdom says start simple and that’s fine. If anything I’ve gotten more simple with experience. I sometimes consider running Test only myself.

But then there are too many other compounds out there that compliment Test so well that their synergy makes them almost as essential as the test itself. If a guy wants to experience that synergy the first time around why not do it?

The argument against usually goes something like this: well then he won’t know what the Test did, what the drol did and what the tren did [to randomly pick three common compounds. My counter point is who cares. No one ever goes in reverse in cycling [with the lone exception if you dose too high and need to back down].

So Dude#1 using 500mg of Test for his first cycle; adds some dbol in the second time and by round three is ready to add whatever EQ, Mast, Tren whatever. Versus Dude#2 who right from the get go adds drol and Tren on that first run.

There is no question who will have a better first cycle and second cycle for that matter.

The argument for a stack the first time around comes from the same mindset that advocates higher doses and shorter cycles. Once you’re suppressed you’re suppressed. Once the boys are turned off they’re off. There is no extra-off [we can argue the Deca Dick later]. The one very legitimate concern of course is sides and how to determine what is causing what.

Again, more or less a totally personal choice but when the rubber meets the road I will not advise against a multiple compouds run on the first round

Bushy – thanks for reminding me. It’s been on my mind somewhat too. I’m pretty used to heavy singles/triples, but I’m unsure as to how I’ll handle the very increased load on cycle.

jmm2020 – That’s what my source told me too. That’s why I think I’m going to inject tomorrow and assess the pain before I go on the cycle injecting ED. Then I’m going to inject Saturday with an oil diluted solution if I am a cripple, try and find a tolerable dose. And yes, the Test is in ampules. I totally agree with your opinion of that!

5.0 / 2thepain – thanks for your thoughts, both of you. I generally learn something every time I read one of you guy’s posts, so thanks for that as well. Decided I’m going to start the tren at 300 mg and increase to 350 or so if I get the other vials.

ON THE STACK-- I actually started a thread several months back laying out a potential cycle and asking for advice. Got great stuff from a lot of people, and several of them suggested a test/tren run. I was going to add low dose of masteron to it, but not so hot on that now. expense and all.

I think saps pretty much put up a good post on why I’m doing it, but also because I’m pretty “chemistry savvy” so to speak, and because I have a good handle on my body’s responses, and because I’m stronger than the average first time user (well, except my bench :frowning: ).

Finally, my primary goals for the cycle are A) Strength B) more strength C) lean mass and little water retention, in that order. Tren’s pretty famous for all of that. I am chasing a 600 lb squat and pull. Yeah, I could get them naturally but my patience is kinda gone right now. Long story, briefly but incompletely posted in my other thread in T-Cell.

Yes, no doubt the tren with test will give you what you’re looking for. You may be one of the few who can get away with a successful first go around with a more complex stack, so to speak. Looking forward to the log.

the reason i always tell people to start with just test is:

  1. you will still make very good gains. your gains will be better stacking more compounds but when you will make very good gains off just a simple and cheap cycle of test why not run with it and use the other stuff on future cycles…because we all know there WILL be future cycles.

  2. you will learn what your tolerance is to test. I wish I had run test only on the first cycle for this reason alone. especially if you are running prop you could easily test different doses to see what different levels of test do to you and where your threshold for sides is.

  3. Once you understand what level of test suits you best you can add and subtract other compounds one at a time to see what effect they have. If you add Drol, Winny, and Tren on your second cycle how do you know what each compound is adding to it. How do you know what changes to the way you look and feel each one is providing.


Only thing id like to add or suggest it to run the prop a few weeks longer after the tren. I just ran prop/mast 4 weeks after the tren was stopped and am very happy with how I am feeling going into pct.

3 weeks would of likely been lots, but the 4 worked out well. Starting 30mg of prop EOD as of today for 4ish weeks now to begin pct.

Aragorn, at that ratio you may need to watch out for tren dick. It reared its ugly head for me at 500mg test, 300mg tren (both enanthates) and while I just happened to be in New Orleans for a long weekend. Not the worst thing ever, but it was prob pretty close.

You will be BLOWN AWAY by a test only first cycle.
Mine was 250mg/E3D for 12 weeks.
Then you will know EXACTLY how your body reacts to test.

Save the Tren, but that’s just my two cents.
That way you’ll have an even more amazing second cycle…
Myself? I’m looking foward to a tren/test/dbol second cycle in Jan/Feb…

Whatever you choose, will be watching to see your results so good luck!

IMO it is absolutely unnecessary to stack steroids in the first FEW cycles… i also am a big believer in short cycles of upto 8 weeks (maybe 10 if needed, but 8 is better) for the first few too.

The only “steroid” that should be stacked at first is Mesterolone.


These will all ‘blow you up’ as one ‘boxer666’ so memorably put it once upon a time!

JMO though - many disagree