T Nation

Fighting and Martial Arts

I do TKD, which I know is basically worthless for self-defense. But, aren’t most martial arts the same? Afterall, you still spar from a set position, while most fights are spontaneous or assassination-style surprise attacks.

Wrestlers have an edge in MMA but what if you try to drive your fingers through your opponents eyes? Wrestlers get close to their opponent — so I’d try to blind the guy or try to bite his throat. So wrestling only works if there are rules. I have done Kina Mutai, which seems more realistic.

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?

I would have to say boxing. I would never mess with a boxer.

Check out Bas Rutten’s Lethal Street Fighting. He takes a lot of MMA and other self-defense styles and applies them to street fighting. And he is freaking hilarious!

Their is also Target Focused Training, which I think CW has something to do with? I remember seeing something about it on his old website.

You can’t really go wrong with either.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?[/quote]

Smith & Wesson.

If guns aren’t your bag, then I highly recommend …

Track & field.

Seriously, you should not pursue martial arts in order to become Billy Badass in a street fight, because more often than not weapons and/or multiple attackers become a real issue. In those instances, hand to hand combat is pretty much worthless and you are much better off packing heat or running away.

Pursue martial arts to help you channel your aggression towards a positive activity. Pursue martial arts because you want to challenge yourself. Pursue martial arts because you enjoy competing and learning new things. Those are all fine and noble reasons for taking up a martial art. Don’t take up martial arts in order to learn how to kick ass, because chances are you’ll end up testing your new knowledge on the street and running into the real Billy Badass.

Israeli fighting arts (Krav Maga) is best for self-defense I suppose…

But I agree with Steve.

Boxing or wrestling.

I’ve seen boxers knock guys out in less than three punches in the street, and I know wrestlers that will have you on the ground in seconds… and then are pounding your face in.

Most guys don’t know how to punch, have no endurance, no balance, and shitty reflexes (especially when they’re drunk). Take any boxer and throw him against that, and you’re fuckin dead.

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?

Smith & Wesson.

If guns aren’t your bag, then I highly recommend …

Track & field.

[/quote]

Sanest piece of advice I’ve ever read on the question.

I whole-heartedly agree. Today, hand-to-hand combat is more the result of poor marksmanship from both parties than anything else.

Besides, no amount of technical training is gonna give you that “eye of the tiger” quality that’s needed to survive, much less win, such a fight.

Here’s why, from the words of great martial arts master: http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=444

Also of interest: http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=547

Let me also add that its not the martial art that matters, its the person. Become a beast and get some size and strength to back that up and you’ll be fine.

-Note- you may also want to consider that in todays world, the guy who get his ass kicked will probably charge you. Then you can see if you martial arts really work…

In jail

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I do TKD, which I know is basically worthless for self-defense. But, aren’t most martial arts the same? Afterall, you still spar from a set position, while most fights are spontaneous or assassination-style surprise attacks.

Wrestlers have an edge in MMA but what if you try to drive your fingers through your opponents eyes? Wrestlers get close to their opponent — so I’d try to blind the guy or try to bite his throat. So wrestling only works if there are rules. I have done Kina Mutai, which seems more realistic.

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?[/quote]

  1. Being a decent, respectful person. Avoids the stupid fights.

  2. Generally avoiding unsafe/problematic areas.

  3. I agree with the other poster that taking a martial art shouldn’t be for fighting, however, I also figure that any kind of practice being physical will make it easier for you to defend yourself. I think most people have a problem with it because they aren’t used to any kind of combat. Just keep it simple and remember that the goal is to defend yourself, not show off or beat somebody up.

  4. Lift weights, get big. People are less likely to target you for a victim. However, there are others who will target you because they feel threatened and want to prove themselves. Those are the situations where suggestion number one comes in handy.

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?

Smith & Wesson.

If guns aren’t your bag, then I highly recommend …

Track & field.
[/quote]

Good Answer

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I do TKD, which I know is basically worthless for self-defense. But, aren’t most martial arts the same? Afterall, you still spar from a set position, while most fights are spontaneous or assassination-style surprise attacks.

Wrestlers have an edge in MMA but what if you try to drive your fingers through your opponents eyes? Wrestlers get close to their opponent — so I’d try to blind the guy or try to bite his throat. So wrestling only works if there are rules. I have done Kina Mutai, which seems more realistic.

What’s good training for actual and realistic self-defense? Ideas?[/quote]

Go here: http://www.bullshido.net/

And discuss it with them. There is a large number of no BS martial artists on the site. Many of whom have either worked doors or have had altercations in “the street”.

USMC?

Join the military and they’ll teach you how to be billy badass with or without weapons. It does seem very ironic to increase your chance of dying to an insane degree to learn to protect yourself, but I’m just sayin’ thats the best option. The goal is to kill an opponent in a street fight situation, in which your opponent wants to kill you and will do so given the chance. I doesn’t get more real life than that.

Alternatively doing wrestling and boxing will help immensely if you just want to win schoolyard fights.

I have always been interested in Krav Maga. Bas Rutten also has some good ideas on street fighting.

I have found that just being a really big dude is better than knowing a martial art. Usually if you know a martial art but aren’t intimidating, you have to use the martial art, but being intimidating more often you can avoid the fight.

“I do TKD, which I know is basically worthless for self-defense. But, aren’t most martial arts the same?”

Don’t knock TKD. Sure it’s the McDonalds of martial arts, everyone has tried it.

But it’s also very simple to get decent at, and in a fight simplicity is key. In TKD you kick, punch, elbow and knee…that’s it. If you’re remotely athletic it’s a nice martial art to get good at.

I’m not saying it’s more effective than kenpo, ju-jitsu, boxing, etc. But in the couple of real street fights I’ve been in as an adult, I used TDK to blast some dudes in their knee, then their nuts, then put them in a choke hold.

No spinning back kicks or back kicks, mind you. Just good hard kicks to the knees and nuts.

Like I said: simple.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:

I have found that just being a really big dude is better than knowing a martial art. Usually if you know a martial art but aren’t intimidating, you have to use the martial art, but being intimidating more often you can avoid the fight.

[/quote]

I have found that being a reasonable human being is the best route. I have yet to come across the bar/schoolyard-type fight that I can’t talk my way out of or walk away from.

[quote]ProRaven wrote:
“I do TKD, which I know is basically worthless for self-defense. But, aren’t most martial arts the same?”

Don’t knock TKD. Sure it’s the McDonalds of martial arts, everyone has tried it.

But it’s also very simple to get decent at, and in a fight simplicity is key. In TKD you kick, punch, elbow and knee…that’s it. If you’re remotely athletic it’s a nice martial art to get good at.

I’m not saying it’s more effective than kenpo, ju-jitsu, boxing, etc. But in the couple of real street fights I’ve been in as an adult, I used TDK to blast some dudes in their knee, then their nuts, then put them in a choke hold.

No spinning back kicks or back kicks, mind you. Just good hard kicks to the knees and nuts.

Like I said: simple.

[/quote]

Wait wait wait, as an adult you kneed someone in the nuts?

Ummm…No. I kicked him in the nuts.

Hard, I might add.

[quote]ProRaven wrote:
Ummm…No. I kicked him in the nuts.

Hard, I might add.

[/quote]

Why in Gods name would you kick another grown man in the nuts. I mean I know there’s no rules but damn.

[quote]John S. wrote:

Why in Gods name would you kick another grown man in the nuts. I mean I know there’s no rules but damn.[/quote]

It’s a great way to end a fight before it even gets started. If someone backs you into a corner and forces you to defend yourself, a swift kick to the beanbag is an easy way to extricate yourself from a bad situation before it gets REALLY ugly.

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
John S. wrote:

Why in Gods name would you kick another grown man in the nuts. I mean I know there’s no rules but damn.

It’s a great way to end a fight before it even gets started. If someone backs you into a corner and forces you to defend yourself, a swift kick to the beanbag is an easy way to extricate yourself from a bad situation before it gets REALLY ugly.[/quote]

I guess, I mean I would never give anyone a swift kick to the nuts but hey who am I to judge.