T Nation

Fighters On TRT

I just read an article that Frank Mir has been approved to be on TRT.

He is now the latest fighter to be on this. There is a part of me that is wondering and a little angry that fighters are using TRT. I do think some do use it to give themselves an edge, so to speak. I do worried that these fighters will give TRT a bad name and feel that in the future it will cause a media shitstorm and therefore can cause guys who really need it have problems getting on TRT.

What does everyone think about this? Am I overreacting or could this lead to problems in the future?

[quote]BradyZ wrote:
I just read an article that Frank Mir has been approved to be on TRT.

He is now the latest fighter to be on this. There is a part of me that is wondering and a little angry that fighters are using TRT. I do think some do use it to give themselves an edge, so to speak. I do worried that these fighters will give TRT a bad name and feel that in the future it will cause a media shitstorm and therefore can cause guys who really need it have problems getting on TRT.

What does everyone think about this? Am I overreacting or could this lead to problems in the future?[/quote]

End of the day they are people who also have a right to medical help just so happens they are fighters. I can see where your concerns are, the media can spin a lot of shit and people just believe it.

I don’t know, I would like to think there should be no issue but who knows. I think there are more fighters there who juice than there are fighters on trt.

The bad name I see is that both “Rampage” Jackson and Frank Mirr got their asses beat, so I don’t see that it was an over whelming advantage. I think it might be opportunity to show it as a valid medical treatment and not a cheaters advantage.

Like holtz above me, I am optimsitc about it as well. I think it is a good opportunity to get an open discussion going on the needs and merits, as well as proper protocols…

IMO fighters use “official TRT” just to give them more leeway when passing tests. You really think most of them never use AAS? Frank Mir is quite the big boy to be a low T guy! Tests are easy to beat, but these days with the new random testing it adds a dangerous element to users of PEDs. Just ask Overeem. But please don’t fall for the “UFC fighters are clean because they are tested” BS, or that these guys really are on TRT for purely medical reasons!

[quote]SwD wrote:
IMO fighters use “official TRT” just to give them more leeway when passing tests. You really think most of them never use AAS? Frank Mir is quite the big boy to be a low T guy! Tests are easy to beat, but these days with the new random testing it adds a dangerous element to users of PEDs. Just ask Overeem. But please don’t fall for the “UFC fighters are clean because they are tested” BS, or that these guys really are on TRT for purely medical reasons![/quote]

I agree, I do think the fighters use the TRT to give them more leeway in the test.

I know fighters use AAS. I am not naive about that. I think a lot of athletes use AAS in all different sports.

I just think that with the UFC being about fighting, it is an easy target to use if there is any signs of abuse by fighters use the “I am on TRT excuse”.

I was speaking to buddy of mine and we both think that it may take a year or two before it really becomes an issue. Personally, I like to see Dana White and other promoters sort of stop this before it could get worse.

Time will tell, I suppose.

[quote]SwD wrote:
IMO fighters use “official TRT” just to give them more leeway when passing tests. You really think most of them never use AAS? Frank Mir is quite the big boy to be a low T guy! Tests are easy to beat, but these days with the new random testing it adds a dangerous element to users of PEDs. Just ask Overeem. But please don’t fall for the “UFC fighters are clean because they are tested” BS, or that these guys really are on TRT for purely medical reasons![/quote]

This true…plus it also negates one of the most effective tests used in doping (T:E). Nobody on exogenous test will pass this, so they could technically run a fast clearing ester like prop, or even suspension, and greatly reduce the likelihood they get popped for the other tests (namely actual Test levels) while still getting the benefits.

[quote]BradyZ wrote:
I was speaking to buddy of mine and we both think that it may take a year or two before it really becomes an issue. Personally, I like to see Dana White and other promoters sort of stop this before it could get worse.

[/quote]

Fuck that…I don’t want to see pre-pubescent boys slapping at each other…I want to see mass mutants beating the piss out of another equally large monster! Kinda like the steroids era in baseball…sure they were cheating, but man it was a lot less boring when guys were cracking 60+ homers a season.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]BradyZ wrote:
I was speaking to buddy of mine and we both think that it may take a year or two before it really becomes an issue. Personally, I like to see Dana White and other promoters sort of stop this before it could get worse.

[/quote]

Fuck that…I don’t want to see pre-pubescent boys slapping at each other…I want to see mass mutants beating the piss out of another equally large monster! Kinda like the steroids era in baseball…sure they were cheating, but man it was a lot less boring when guys were cracking 60+ homers a season.
[/quote]

Here is the thing, I do not have a problem with athletes using steroids. Any sport, if they choose to use then, go for it. I enjoy baseball, still do, it was fun watching those home runs.

My only thing is that these fighters using the TRT and then abusing it, therefore giving TRT a bad rep.

To be honest, I do not want TRT associated with fighters, I rather have it be associated to men with a medical problem. Yes, I do understand that some fighters need TRT and have low Test, but what is going to happen when 2 years down the road all of a sudden 50-75% of fighters are on TRT. I just dont think it will look good for TRT.

I hope for the best. I want TRT to have a good positive meaning behind it.

Many Media reporters, and general MMA fans on MMA forums, are making TRT synonymous with Steroid abuse. Most of these people figure “Oh, you get Testosterone while on TRT, and Testosterone is used as a performance enhancer, so they must be the same thing!” It drives me NUTS! I spend so much fucking time explaining to morons that supplemental testosterone gives you ZERO performance advantage if you keep yourself in normal ranges. If a guy on TRT has a T level of 800ng/dL, and an exact clone of himself has 800ng/dL of natural Testosterone you would see no difference. These ignorant people have no idea about the causes of hypo, and they all assume it was past steroid use. They also seem to think that lowering T levels as you age is a good thing because it’s “natural”. I have spent so many hours trying to educate people on MMA forums about the difference between TRT and Steroid Abuse, and it’s mostly in vain - they see that it’s the same chemical and don’t understand the difference between medical necessity and performance enhancement.

I was training to run the amateur MMA circuit here in CA when I was 18, just before getting hit by a drunk driver, needing 4 shoulder operations, and the whole cancer thing. I am really passionate about the sport, but I hate how many MMA fans have no fucking clue how TRT or Steroids work, how people are diagnosed with hypo, and how Testosterone by itself doesn’t do anything performance-wise. I hate when people say “all you have to do is shoot up and you can gain 20lbs in a month”. Yeah, I’m sure steroid users just inject and never go to the gym or anything.

The whole situation sucks, and it puts a huge stigma on TRT and those who actually need it. I wish people could take 15 seconds to learn about it before running their mouths about something they don’t know dick about. One guy said “Chael Sonnen will have his pre-fight testosterone test, then inject hell of T, and then, by the time his fight is over and it’s time for the post-fight test, all of the T will have left his system and he’ll be back at normal levels”. I said “Testosterone doesn’t work like cocaine”. Sadly, it’s the fans fault for TRT getting such a bad rap. The fighters don’t help much, but I blame it more on the Media and people who post on MMA forums for all the BS going on.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

This true…plus it also negates one of the most effective tests used in doping (T:E). Nobody on exogenous test will pass this, so they could technically run a fast clearing ester like prop, or even suspension, and greatly reduce the likelihood they get popped for the other tests (namely actual Test levels) while still getting the benefits. [/quote]

athletes on exogenous testosterone have been passing tests for quite some time. as long as their T:E ratio is below 6:1 they “pass” in Nevada whilst the average guys ratio is usually jusat a little over 1:1. Would be interesting to see how many 5.9:1 results there have been! You think those guys aren’t using? Victor Conte had a whole stable full of athletes using exogenous testosterone and passing tests!

the Carbon Isotope test used by VADA detects exogenous testosterone irrespective of ratio (reference the recent Lamont Peterson case) and should be the “marker” test not T:E ratio.

[quote]tokon wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

This true…plus it also negates one of the most effective tests used in doping (T:E). Nobody on exogenous test will pass this, so they could technically run a fast clearing ester like prop, or even suspension, and greatly reduce the likelihood they get popped for the other tests (namely actual Test levels) while still getting the benefits. [/quote]

athletes on exogenous testosterone have been passing tests for quite some time. as long as their T:E ratio is below 6:1 they “pass” in Nevada whilst the average guys ratio is usually jusat a little over 1:1. Would be interesting to see how many 5.9:1 results there have been! You think those guys aren’t using? Victor Conte had a whole stable full of athletes using exogenous testosterone and passing tests!

the Carbon Isotope test used by VADA detects exogenous testosterone irrespective of ratio (reference the recent Lamont Peterson case) and should be the “marker” test not T:E ratio.[/quote]

Little confused by the ratios you listed. Normal guys have ratio 1:1 that would mean they have the same amount of E as T?

sorry, with regards to PED drug tests the ratio i referred to is testosterone:epitestosterone.

[quote]tokon wrote:
sorry, with regards to PED drug tests the ratio i referred to is testosterone:epitestosterone.[/quote]

Cool was wondering what E was.

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

[quote]tokon wrote:
sorry, with regards to PED drug tests the ratio i referred to is testosterone:epitestosterone.[/quote]

Cool was wondering what E was.[/quote]

I was confused about this when I first saw it a couple years ago too…I couldn’t make the math work in my head.

[quote]tokon wrote:

athletes on exogenous testosterone have been passing tests for quite some time. as long as their T:E ratio is below 6:1 they “pass” in Nevada whilst the average guys ratio is usually jusat a little over 1:1. [/quote]

Of course they have, but there have also been many guys that failed solely because of this. Being on TRT would render this test absolutely useless, instead of about 50% useless.

Where a ton of the confusion lies within the “Fighters on TRT” issue, is that people think that having a 14:1 T/E ratio means you have 14 times normal levels of T. I explain to them how fractions work, much to no avail. 14:1 could mean really high T, but it could also mean really low E. If you are hypogonadal you will have really low E. When Chael Sonnen tested at 16.9:1 everyone shouted “OMG LOOK HOW MUCH HE JUICES”. I said “I don’t know Sonnen’s medical history, but if he really has hypo then 16.9:1 could mean he has normal T and low E, like 800ng of T and 50ng of E”.

I keep telling people that T/E is only good for one thing: Identifying someone who is using supplemental T. It doesn’t tell how high his T is, or how low his E is, only that said person is using synthetic testosterone. It’s a fucking worthless test. If you’re a freak born with a 10:1 (which has been documented) then good luck being a pro athlete. I don’t get why guys can’t give a teaspoon of blood after a fight to check actual T levels. Also with blood tests you can see a lot more than what you can see in piss, and it’s virtually impossible to fake a blood test (unlike urine where you can have someone else’s urine in a bag, or use masking agents).