T Nation

FFB on AAS

What would you guys suggest for a starting point for macronutrient ratios and calories for a client who is on AAS but is also a FFB (former fat boy)? He is 5-11, 195 and in good health. I’m really paranoid in not recommending enough cals to gain mass but too many cals can cause fat gain.

Thank you.

Depends where the cals come from, I would watch the shitty fat and carb intake more than calories

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
What would you guys suggest for a starting point for macronutrient ratios and calories for a client who is on AAS but is also a FFB (former fat boy)? He is 5-11, 195 and in good health. I’m really paranoid in not recommending enough cals to gain mass but too many cals can cause fat gain.

Thank you.[/quote]
also what is his current BF %?

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Depends where the cals come from, I would watch the shitty fat and carb intake more than calories[/quote]

this is what I’d do too. If he’s too fat then I’d put off cycling for a bit.

Okay, thanks… that’s basically what I’m doing - clean carbs and reduced omega 6’s and saturates (less inflammation = better insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance), although saturate in the form of coconut oil is very healthy.

He is about 15% BF, does not want to get much leaner (remember he came from 40% or more) just wants to get bigger.

Still, I’m looking for a rough caloric goal per lb of body weight so I have a starting place with any FFB/AAS client. Normally, I start around 15xBW in calories daily for natural LBM gain who is mesomorphic bodytype. Do you think 18x would be fair on gear? That is what I use for natural ectomorphs, but then again the client is/was an endomorph, so would that be over-kill?

Typically with non-AAS clients I guesstimate a starting place then take BF, weight and waist every two weeks, then adjust based on the results.

Also, still looking for the macro % that any of you FFB/AAS’s use to put on size with minimal fat gain.

Thanks,

TS

From a business standpoint I would keep him at a normal caloric intake heres why: He wants to be bigger.

If if uses AAS and trains= bigger!
If he uses AAS and drops a few BF%= He looks bigger!
If he uses AAS and both happens=He is still bigger!

Just saying this is a win win for you for retaining a happy client.

Hard to say because everyone is different, from how their body digest food to what kind of work they do. I would start at a number and go from there, if he needs more then slowly bump up the cals. Normally on gear you can stand to eat more calories then normal.

What kind of cycle were you thinking about?

[quote]lbraga wrote:
What kind of cycle were you thinking about? [/quote]

He is on 750 test cyp/wk, 400 deca /week, front loaded dbol 40mg for 4 weeks, .25mg adex ED. So, from what I have read, this is a fairly potent mix. Which is why I wanted to be more aggressive with the cals, but again I know what he is going through being a FFB - I would give my right nut not to get fat again… shit, both of them for that matter!

Thanks,

he’s running over a gram of gear? Fat gain shouldn’t be a problem

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
he’s running over a gram of gear? Fat gain shouldn’t be a problem[/quote]

What do you think is reasonable to expect for gains on a cycle like this, if calories are up to par? 15-20lbs LBM gain?

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
he’s running over a gram of gear? Fat gain shouldn’t be a problem[/quote]

What do you think is reasonable to expect for gains on a cycle like this, if calories are up to par? 15-20lbs LBM gain?[/quote]

potentially yeah, there’s too many variables to be able to say for sure though. It’s quite a meaty cycle though so I would expect 12lbs+ fairly easily

Well, I upped his cals above what I normally would recommend and sure enough BF went up significantly. I don’t think he is terribly disappointed because he has definitely gained more LBM than fat mass. Looks like for a FFB, there is a limit to the calories while on AAS. And yes, he was/is eating clean, with moderate carbs, so this was not from fast food binges.

Have any of you experimented with the “pulse fast” that was talked about here a while back? Or, other type of on-cycle BF correction? I don’t want to stall gains but need to mitigate some of the fat gain. One issue is that he get’s almost migraine-intensity headaches on low carbs. Maybe I should have him hit some post-W/O cardio for a week while slightly scaling back cals?

Thanks,

TS

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Well, I upped his cals above what I normally would recommend and sure enough BF went up significantly. I don’t think he is terribly disappointed because he has definitely gained more LBM than fat mass. Looks like for a FFB, there is a limit to the calories while on AAS. And yes, he was/is eating clean, with moderate carbs, so this was not from fast food binges.

Have any of you experimented with the “pulse fast” that was talked about here a while back? Or, other type of on-cycle BF correction? I don’t want to stall gains but need to mitigate some of the fat gain. One issue is that he get’s almost migraine-intensity headaches on low carbs. Maybe I should have him hit some post-W/O cardio for a week while slightly scaling back cals?

Thanks,

TS[/quote]

this smells fishy to me, I think he’s not being as honest about his diet as you think he is.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Well, I upped his cals above what I normally would recommend and sure enough BF went up significantly. I don’t think he is terribly disappointed because he has definitely gained more LBM than fat mass. Looks like for a FFB, there is a limit to the calories while on AAS. And yes, he was/is eating clean, with moderate carbs, so this was not from fast food binges.

Have any of you experimented with the “pulse fast” that was talked about here a while back? Or, other type of on-cycle BF correction? I don’t want to stall gains but need to mitigate some of the fat gain. One issue is that he get’s almost migraine-intensity headaches on low carbs. Maybe I should have him hit some post-W/O cardio for a week while slightly scaling back cals?

Thanks,

TS[/quote]

this smells fishy to me, I think he’s not being as honest about his diet as you think he is.[/quote]

x2

^^^ kinda agree with them. How many cals did you have him go up?

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
he’s running over a gram of gear? Fat gain shouldn’t be a problem[/quote]

What do you think is reasonable to expect for gains on a cycle like this, if calories are up to par? 15-20lbs LBM gain?[/quote]

rds, please do more research before you post… you dont have a fucking clue what you are talking about…

ANYWAYS, fat guys should generally avoid AAS that aromatizes at a higher rate like testosterone…dbol is known for having strong estrogen side effects as well, because IIRC, it converts to a rather potent estrogen.

deca is known to cause a signficant amount of bloat as well.

that being said, fat people should run cycles like:

weeks 1-12

test E 100-200mg/week (keep it very low)

weeks 1-10

tren E 500-750/week (lower test lowers side effects from tren, makes it very tolerable)

weeks 1-4, 9-bridge TO (not through) pct

tbol 50-70mg/day (if you absolutely must do an oral… not necessary by any means)

aromasin (best AI according to my research) 12.5mg 2x day (short active life)

a cycle like this will produce lean gains, not fat/water/bloat/etc.

carbs should be kept to 1-1.5 hours preworkout ONLY if he is a fatass (IMO), 100g of brown rice should do the trick.

healthy fats like coconut oil, fish oil, EVOO, etc are great, good lean sources of protein are good as well…

be sure to keep the carbs down… the leaner he is, the better he will be able to tolerate them

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
he’s running over a gram of gear? Fat gain shouldn’t be a problem[/quote]

What do you think is reasonable to expect for gains on a cycle like this, if calories are up to par? 15-20lbs LBM gain?[/quote]

rds, please do more research before you post… you dont have a fucking clue what you are talking about…

ANYWAYS, fat guys should generally avoid AAS that aromatizes at a higher rate like testosterone…dbol is known for having strong estrogen side effects as well, because IIRC, it converts to a rather potent estrogen.

deca is known to cause a signficant amount of bloat as well.

that being said, fat people should run cycles like:

weeks 1-12

test E 100-200mg/week (keep it very low)

weeks 1-10

tren E 500-750/week (lower test lowers side effects from tren, makes it very tolerable)

weeks 1-4, 9-bridge TO (not through) pct

tbol 50-70mg/day (if you absolutely must do an oral… not necessary by any means)

aromasin (best AI according to my research) 12.5mg 2x day (short active life)

a cycle like this will produce lean gains, not fat/water/bloat/etc.

carbs should be kept to 1-1.5 hours preworkout ONLY if he is a fatass (IMO), 100g of brown rice should do the trick.

healthy fats like coconut oil, fish oil, EVOO, etc are great, good lean sources of protein are good as well…

be sure to keep the carbs down… the leaner he is, the better he will be able to tolerate them[/quote]

Good info, thanks for posting that!

Goood suggestions here

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

rds, please do more research before you post… you dont have a fucking clue what you are talking about…

[/quote]

but… but… but…

Buuuuhhuuububububu! (that’s me crying cos you was just so mean to wittle me!)

I’m sad now. You’ve made me sad. No more sex for you. That ship has sailed…

Seriously though, if you are getting fat using AAS then either your diet sucks or you are lazy.

COME AT ME BROHIM