T Nation

FFB Meals


I'm a FFB most definatly. I went from 320 Jelly to 180 thin as hell to a comfotable 200 right now looking to gain size but not pack on the fat. I went low carb for all of the fat loss and I've now had the abdominoplasty to get the excess skin removed. I'm healer up and love how it looks but I feel with the way I'm lifting I need to get more better food in. To be honst now that I'm not trying to "lose" fat I feel lost because I've been doing it for so long!

I read the FFB handbook and they say that like carbs on a FFB will always be bad, I dont get full it seems like with out carbs, I can seriouslt eat a full cow and be able to eat more.

Right now I'm looking at almost starving to eating some junk because then I crave it so much. Feeling like im about to fall of the train but I really dont want to!
I've been eating a lot of meat and eggs like always with veggys but I'm so sick of just meat and veggys every meal.

I seriously need some help as to what I need to change here to save me.


1-4 eggs, sauteed onion and red pepper with spinach and some meat leftovers

2-workout- 2 scoops of whey

3-2 steaks and broccolli and red pepper

4- cucumber with can of tuna on it and extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar dressing

5- 1 scoop or 2 scoop whey shake

Thats what a usual day would look like for me which is even worsened sometime by yo-yoing because I cant make a steak or burger or chicken breast that I'll get a subway sandwhich when I'm working and then starve myself after because I feel like the carbs are going to fuck me up.
I'm at a blank.


honestly i can eat all of the in one meal, and im sure many more here will say the same thing. you need to eat more food if you want to gain size, FFB or not. look into the anabolic diet/solution.

combine meals 1+3. combine 4+5. have meal 2 twice more and add 2oz of nuts.. and add another meal similar to meal 3.

and dont starve yourself...


I'm just really struggling with the carbs aspect. Like if I could add some rice or potatoes to meals and not balloon the hell out Id be alright. But I got to my old ladys for dinner and there italian, pasta and meat al the time and I feel like if I eat pasta I'm going to get fat again.


Here is a great forum full of good ideas



Hi Carltmac,

   COngrats on the great results mate. I have lost 50lbs so far and think I have got around 30-40 more to reach where I want to be, and I think I may need an abdominoplasty afterwards. How was the experience, how long did it take to recover and start weight training. Is there much post operative pain, and are the compression suits easy to live with? sorry for the question overload but its rare to find someone who actually went through the entire process.



<--FFB here, went from 250 to 140 (now 175 and bulking hard).

First, you should take note of how long you've been at your current weight. I've been at a low BW for about five years, which is quite different than if, for instance, I had lost weight a year ago. You should do some reading about "set points" and draw your own conclusions.

Some points:

  1. I currently weigh 175, and I eat wayyyyyyy more than what you listed. Like, probably twice as much, if not a lot more. I'm putting on weight steadily, but not egregiously.

  2. Get over your cravings for shit food. Seriously, I don't get how anyone serious about training even really has any meaningful cravings for junk. To me, it means that the person is either not serious or not training hard enough. I literally don't think my body could go through what I make it do with shit food.

  3. I've been doing relatively low carb for the past month. I'm currently adding some carbs PWO and in my PWO meal.

This might sound harsh, but stop being a dumbass about your diet. There is a ton of info on this site and elsewhere. Speaking as a FFB, I think that we often tend to try to make diet more complicated than it is just so that we can justify doing whatever we want (e.g. undereating, avoiding all carbs to keep our hawt abz, etc). I spent a while doing that last year. Don't do that--it's a waste of time.


Also, know your caloric needs. Eat more than your caloric needs. Ultimately, make sure you're covering three bases:

a) plenty of protein
b) plenty of whole food
c) plenty of calories

relative to your bodyweight.


One more thought on the FFB label:

This site (and to single out Chris Shugart) really make a lot out of the FFB title in terms of "You have to be super careful about putting on fat!!!" and such. Doing so ensures a readership and a strong following, to speak of the incentives involved. The FFB title becomes a crutch that folks (including myself) use to do crazy diets and to fret about their gains.

The thing is, I've had a total philosophy change regarding the FFB title. I used to think of it as a crutch, but now I think of it as a totally liberating advantage.

-after losing so much mass, your muscles are at least theoretically primed to grow because of the lessened tension on the fascia of the muscle fibers (think of DC's extreme stretching--your body has already done it!)
-if you DO put on weight, it's not as if you haven't lost it before!
-your body has been big in the past. It knows how to get there. Follow it, but also guide it through training and nutrition (i.e. not sitting watching tv and munching cheetos).


Awesome man thanks


Could you throw down if you have some time what your daily foods actually look like? Believe me I dont want to be laying around eating lays chips or a bag of cheetos, when someone around me does it kind of repulses me because I'm thinking that holy shit theres nothing but a fat ass to come out of that...... but I mean for dinner, is it insane to have some potatoes with my meat? How about a whole wheat bun with my burger pattys? Last night I didnt even eat peas with my steak cuz of the carbs in it. I'm losing it guys but even the help so far seems to have gotten my head screwed on a little bit better


Every single person is different, there are people who have lost the 120 like me and there skins elasticity is phenominal and pulls right back in, youll just have to wait and see I guess. The fucked up thing is I had 2! My surgeon didnt seem to cut nearly enough off the first time and after 5 months of "let it heal, it will look right" I said fuck that and had it done again. The first surgury I had, I was in the gym doing nearly my regular shit after 7 days....... worst mistake I could have made. DO NOT DO THAT! (I know most are thinking, well we wont, were not fucking morons). Now this second surgury I had I waited about 3 weeks to start really lifting any significant weight. I was doing many steady paced walks, little jogs and some upper body shit after a weeek and a bit which the doc said was fine. Now the compression thing, man when your feeling like there a million pins and needles poking you for the first week or two when you move your not even going to care about the waist thing.

Congrats on the weights loss and keep going man


Here's roughly what I might eat in a day on a day where I don't have classes etc--note that I run 5 miles in the morning and lift in the morning. This might look crazy to you, though--it works for me (at least thus far). I've always been very disciplined about diet, and I don't do the whole 'cravings' or 'cheat meal' stuff--for me, food is about handling business. I enjoy it, sure, but ultimately it's about achieving my goals.

You shouldn't freak about eating anything. You need to set goals for yourself and test out how different nutrient ratios and calorie levels help you move towards those goals. Ask yourself how serious you want your training to be--what role you want it to play in your life. A potato is not going to set you back so much as the larger picture of your macronutrient profile, your training, and how much sleep etc you're getting. Real training should be a 24 hours/day mentality.

Personally, I like to keep any carbs PWO. I find that it works for me, and it seems to be what the biggest guys do. So, I do it. Whether you do so is ultimately up to you.

In one of the sticky threads, Bricknyce says something to the effect of "Your body isn't a machine, it's an organism." You just need to take the time to gauge what effects your choices have on your body and to make changes accordingly. I'm not sure what your weight loss path was like, but mine involved a lot of experimentation. A lot of that had to do with the fact that I was very committed to an athletic endeavor during that period.

I say all this knowing that I'm a total noob as far as these forums are concerned. I was formerly very committed to running, but I have begun a new commitment in pursuing BBing. Personally, I'm still experimenting--I've read nearly everything on this site that has been mentioned as worth reading, and the rules and such I've picked up have been very useful. Use the site and search around. But also remember that ultimately your body is your own. You know it better than we do, CT does, Chris Shugart does, etc, and you should do what's right for it.

Anyway, here's a diet that would constitute a day where I didn't have any other obligations besides training. I'm not sure how many calories I take in a day, but I try to keep it near the 4k mark. And I'm 175lbs or so.

Post-Run: cup of milk w/ .5 scoop whey

Bfast (4:45):
5 whole eggs, one white. Peas, spinach, onions, scrambled.
1 cup cottage cheese with .5 scoop whey mixed in
2 cans tuna

Pre-workout .5 scoops whey, creatine
Peri-workout: 1.5 scoops whey
PWO: 1L milk with 2 scoops whey (sometimes with oats mixed in)

PWO Meal (~1 hour later) (9am)
1 cup cottage cheese, one can tuna, .5 scoops whey.
peas or oatmeal
1lb of broccoli

2 hours later (11):
180 cals cheese
4oz chicken breast
1lb broccoli

Lunch (1):
8oz chicken
veggie of some sort if I can

at 3 I do some form of active recovery--foam rolling, etc. Sometimes I'll do accessory work as well.

.5 scoop whey, 1 cup cottage cheese, can of tuna

.5 lb broccoli, 2 servings almonds, 120 cals cheese
5 eggs, 1 white, spinach and onion

.5lb broccoli, 8 oz chicken breast

cottage cheese with .5 scoop whey before bed


Also, bear in mind that I'm still experimenting with putting on mass as far as nutrition is concerned. If I were you, I would say f*** what The3Commandments says and listen to folks like MODOK, ProfX (esp), KingofBeef, etc. Those guys have either gotten into fantastic bodybuilding condition or gotten huge from being smaller, and they have the experience that I am currently building. I trust them generally as authorities about diet, fitness, etc with regard to BBing far more than I would trust myself.


don't be scared of carbs...I used to be fat as well(30% bf or so)...and now, I eat close to 400g of carbs everyday...

you need to plan your calorie intake...calories are the #1 issue...everything else is secondary...

to build muscle your body requires energy over it's baseline needs...you need to figure out what your maintenance is and eat a reasonable amount of calories over that...

the amount of cals you need each day changes though based on training demands/acitvity levels...for example, you will require more cals training legs than arms....that is something you should be aware of when planning things...

aim for 1.25g-1.5g of protein everyday and a calorie goal conducive to muscle growth...and it won't matter if you eat at subway...

i suspect your training is not optimal either...i suggest you look up layne norton's power/hypertophy routine or MAX OT....both are those routines are solid bodybuilding routines....


Thats exactly what I was thinking..... I understand and lived by the way of "food is fuel" and not that shit that tasted good I want more kind of thing to get me where I am now. I just dont understand how I can keep eating pounds of broccolli every day, I've been doing it with onion and red pepper for years now! How do you cook your brooccolli? There is no way you can eat it one way every time every day?

Now the tuna. Ive had so much with little bits of mayo that seriously the thought of it makes me want to fucking die. How do you eat your tuna so there some variety?


I microwave my frozen broccoli. I cook my eggs in the microwave. I eat the exact same foods every day, just in varying amounts.

Tuna is quite good in cottage cheese with some whey. Give it a try. I usually eat it straight from the can when I'm at school and for breakfast.

Again, dude, it's all about your goals and your lifestyle. I don't have a strong sense of "variety" anymore. When I was committed to running, efficiency running and losing weight took precedence over "variety." I'm coming back from a layoff from weightlifting during which I gave running one last shot. I've decided that BBing is what I want to pursue, and I'm now fully committed to it. For me, diet, sleep, etc all now serve that one end--progress in the weight room and the pursuit of excellence in BBing in the longer term. This is the way I've always approached life--I pick two things to focus on, focus on them, and become the best I possibly can in them. It's all talk coming from me now in BBing because I'm just starting on this new path--right now, it's all about patience and consistency for me.

That's not for everyone or most people, and most people probably find my approach unbalanced/disturbing/whatever. I'm okay with that.

So if you don't like it, then just do something else. Have your mayo, your wheat bun, whatever. My original reply was to say that you should figure out your goals, the lifestyle you want, etc, and do what's right for you. One of the problems with losing a ton of weight, in my experience, is that it's hard to know where to go from there unless you have some counterbalancing force (for me, running). Decide what your force will be--general health, running, lifting, BBing, whatever. I went from a 250lb offensive lineman to setting a course record for my age group at my city's marathon. It wasn't the best anyone my age could have run, I'm sure, but I was the one who ran it. Choose your goal and pursue it. And know why you're doing it--for me, the draw of BBing is the self-mastery aspect of it.

And congrats on the weight loss. But remember that weight loss isn't a result--results are bullshit. It's all just another step in your progress as a person. Life is for a long time.

Sorry if that came across as a lecture, but your questions just seem to present someone who doesn't have any clear sense of direction, and I hope that something I wrote might get you thinking about where to go from "I'm no longer fat."


its definitely a mindfuckery. every time i eat carbs i over do it and gain some fat (im a FFB too). right now what im enjoying and is working for me is zero carb, essentially keto, for 2-3 days and then ONE carb meal of like 45-60g of carbs. and thats it for another 2-3 days. give it a try.


Your fucking hitting it right on the head there man..... I seriously dont know what direction I want to go down and I think that is what the problem here is. To be honest, all respect due to the fucking huge guys, thats deadly but thats not me, I know everyone says it.... I want to be ripped! Most people do but I also want to be strong. I dont want to look like one of the morons in the gym with a wife beater on curling 35s then going to do DB Bench with 50s (no offence to people starting off) I want to be in great cosmetic shape obviously which is even more tempting coming from being obese but I really want to be strong. It's the transition that's killing me.... going from under maintenance calories to above and adding stuff in is kind of scaring me.

Thanks for the help guys and The3Commandments thats incredible the dedication you got to eating some terrible food man.


Note that you have about three goals in there--"ripped" (??), strong, "not huge"....

One helpful thing would be to set one specific goal. If it's "strong," then focus just on that one thing. If it's "ripped," then you would need to decide what your definition of that would be and work toward it.

They're not mutually exclusive, but they focus on different things. When I say that I want to commit to BBing, strength and lifting heavy shit is inextricably related yet ultimately ancillary to the larger goal. If your goal is just being strong, then having a muscular appearance will be a result but ultimately ancillary. If it's "ripped," then you'll probably get stronger, but the focus will be on whatever your definition of "ripped" is.


Its funny reading this because I used to be fat myself but thats not because im endomorphic in any way I just ate way too much 6-8000 cal a day and that was when i wasnt working out at all, just a high school kid. At first i thought i was naturally fat but this wasnt the case and at my first attempts at bulking I tried to do it on very little food LABELLING myself as a FFB and nothing happened. My point in all this is you may be able to eat more food then you think you can based on how you got so fat in the first place. Also carbs arent as bad as many people think but they have to be closely monitored in my own experience at least coming off a low carb diet or something. Just dont under eat no matter what label you think you fall under you wont go anywhere.