T Nation

FFB Diet Help


I used to be extremely over weight, an obvious endomorph. After trying some crash diets a couple years ago I decided I hated the way they made me feel and started bodybuilding which I have been doing for 2 years.

For the past year I have really cracked down on my diet and started calorie counting and watching what I eat throughout each part of the day. Currently I weigh 160 lbs, 5 ft 10, 18 years old and was previously 215 pounds at 22%+ bf. I am down to about 14-15% as a rough estimate and want to get shredded before bulking up.

I have tried bulking by basically doing a 40/40/20 plan at 2800 to 3000 cals a day and was gaining substantial fat and some muscle. I've saw a couple articles on how its important for FFB(former fat boys) to get shredded before attempting any type of mass/muscle gaining diets to prevent fat gain.

This diet below is my typical diet i've started with adjusted portions to suit calorie needs. My plan was to follow the below diet and adjust calories about 100 a week down to the lowest of 2200, so I still have energy for my workouts. I am doing a 5 day split routine with moderate cardio 3 times per week.

Any advice or adjustments to my current diet/routine to help reach my goal of 10%bf would be greatly appreciated.

Breakfast(5:00am)- 1 cup oats / 1 scoop caesin/whey blend / 1 cup hood milk - Cals. - 500

Postworkout(8:00am) - 1 scoop nutrex vitagro + 1 scoop Protein Isolate
250 Cals

Classes Over-Lunch(12:00pm)- Prolab MRP - 1 cup hood milk
440 Cals

2:30pm - 1 Can Tuna, 1 Can Unsalted Green Beans, 1 Tbs. Nat Pb
330 Cals

5:30pm - Regular Day - MRP such as Muscle Milk - 350 Cals
(Work Day Meal)-Chicken or Steak Salad with Avocado at work.
Portion to roughly 400 Cals

8:00pm - Regular Day - 1 Cup Cottage Cheese w/ Half Serving Caesin Protein & 1 Tbs. nat pb - 375 Cals
(Work Day Meal)Chicken or steak Salad w/ Avocado again at work.
Portion to roughly 400 Cals.

Only Drink Water: Aim for 1 - 1.5 Gallons/day
Fish Oil Caps taken throughout day: 100 Cals

Total Normal Day: 2345 Calories
Total Workday: 2420 Calories


160 at 5'10 is scrawny. I'd suggest you actually get your bodyfat tested just so you have an idea of where your at and start adding some muscle. You're gonna add some fat, just don't be retarded in your bulk. STart with a modest 10% or so above maintenance, work on adding weight to the bar, and re-evaluate after 6 weeks.


I pretty much expected this kind of answer, and understand where your coming from. Should I ignore this article for now then, I know im at least 14 to 15% bf while im pretty lean every where else i have fat over my abs and can see the outline of my upper abs but no cuts or anything http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet


Thanks for the link to that great article; it felt like it was written just for me: the FFB. I wish I knew about it when I tried my first bulk and indeed got the 4:1 fat:muscle weight gain ratio. Through trial and error, other web sites and now this article, I learned all the points of FFB dieting/training. I think it's a fascinating read, but here are all the things it confirmed [for me at least] FFBs must do in case you don't read it.

  1. Eat clean.
  2. Keep a food log [mine is just calories/activity/weight for the day]
  3. Carb cycle
  4. Base your workouts on big, compound lifts
  5. Lean, clean, slow bulk only
  6. Cardio even while bulking

Before starting my training I was at 106kg 28%BF [180cm tall]. I tried bulking in November eating clean and using the "massive eating calculator" but noticed I was gaining mostly fat. I went from 11-14%BF in a month. I know now that FFBs must play by special rules, which I wasn't. No cardio, calories set too high and too many carbs and improperly timed carbs.

Now I'm 83-85kg [depending on the time of day] probably around 13%BF. I have dieted down to lower BF before but my strength was going down by the week and my metabolism crashed and wasn't losing any more fat. I figure I'll try cutting again when I have something to cut down to. I find 2800cal on cardio days and 3000 on lifting days seems to be my current sweet spot: weight staying the same but strength going up and ever so slightly getting definition.

Anyway I'll be sticking around this thread. There's lots of great info for FFBs on this site. Sorry, didn't mean to thread hijack, but this thread and article just was inspiring.


I have a question as it pertains to FFBs. Should we be spiking our insulin post workout the same way as the regular guys? Right now I use malt extract or powerade powder with whey. But are we better off with fruit or something, being fat-storing machines? Prunes have a low-ish GI and lots of glucose [compared to fructose].


Yes IMO. You should you can see my FFBness in the Pic forum and I use Surge for every w/o prior During and after.

The other thing I warn you about and being an FFB. You WILL have to laern to accept a BIT of BF to make good gains. Just cant be that perpetual 10-12 % and gaining like crazy like say a JB and you need to find your intake level. I say keep it 90% clean and go on a Nice Slow extended bulk. just aiming to add wieght Slow 1lb a week at most. dont get OVER damn fat but that YOYO crap wont get you anywhere.

If things start to get out of hand dont panic and just start cutting away. make an adjustment and keep heading toward that goal. youve lost the fat once and can easily do it again Now time to leanr how to add muscle without to much unacceptable fat gains.

Just learn your intake get a handle on it and Go for your goals. Train HARD, eat big and clean and be consistant with all of it.

Hope that helps,


No, I wouldn't say ignore it. Actually, I'm not sure if he says it there, but he has mentioned that he dieted down too hard and got skinny fat, which seems to be what you're describing. Not sure what advice Chris would give you as he went through a learning process afterwards. Also, Phil was overweight too and is pretty lean, he's got good advice as well.

I also was fairly heavy but here's my advice. Eat at maintenance for awhile. Actually, learn where your maintenance is while working on getting stronger. You need some muscle on you and that's not gonna happen without eating some calories. So first, work on getting a healthy relationship with food, find out where your maintenance is and what foods work for you. By that I mean figure out what foods trigger eating binges, what foods allow you to eat and be satisfied.

You're not fat, you're not competing and so there should be no rush. You're only 18 and this is for life so take your time.


Thanks for the info. I just checked my weight again and I haven't gained on 3000/2800 so I'll try 3200/3000 this week and see what happens.

As for "Surge" I hear good things about it [on this site] but a couple things have been holding me back from trying it. I live in Japan and no one sells it here, to ship a tub here would be expensive. Would Biotest send me a sample? I'm thinking of placing a big order soon. If I try and like Surge, I'll be tempted to pick up a few tubs of it and some Metabolic Drive.

And the other thing is Surge seems high in its carb to protein ratio. Right now I do 1:1 protein to malt extract. 25g/protein PWO seems a bit low to be, a 185lb'er. But since you personally recommended it to me as a FFB after reading my question, maybe I'll check it out.


Regardless of the ratios- Surge is the best PWO nutrition you can find. The protein is fast absorbing type, so it is better than just "regular" protein.