T Nation

Few questions


#1

Well I'm 20 years old. I'm 6'4", 205. I've been lifting since I was 17. I got some good gains at first, tapered off, and in the past 12 months I have dialed in my diet and the gains have come again. Lately I feel like I've tapered off. I've mixed up my workouts. I know quite a bit about nutrition and lifting.

I ran into a friend who I used to work out with tonight. I hadn't seen him in a couple years, and he has grown a ton. He told me he was juicing, he's on Test, among other things. His progress is amazing. He is no inexperienced user. He has a great diet, trains hard, and does educated stacks. He is also 28. He said if I was interested in doing a cycle, he could hook me up. Well I'm a bit interested.

I have been reading over the forums, soaking up info. I have a good bit of information so far, and my friend can help me out as well, as he's done quite a few cycles so far. I don't feel I'm at my genetic potential, but I feel at my size, and weight, I could use the boost. I'm not worried about "stunting my growth" as I'm already 6'4, not much left to stunt. I feel I'm mature enough to handle using, and I want to go about it the right way.

I've searched all the posts but, alot of conflicting opinions on steroid usage at my age. Basically if I'm not worried about growth inhabition, I'm mature, and serious about it, will I damage myself? I've read about possible endocrine system damage, and at the same time I've ready many testimonials from people my age, slightly older and slightly younger that would say otherwise.

Thoughts?

-Brandon


#2

Saw your post about benching. Personally I think you need to get your strength and weight up naturally first before doing a cycle. At 6'4" and only 208lbs you could do with just eating.

If stuck at that weight then you still have much more experience to gain. I think you may be short cutting your learning if you do AAS now.

Also your strength training knowledge needs to be improved alot which will also suffer if you just use to get over your 'plateau'.

Also at your age 20 you should have plenty of endogenous test to work with anyway. Try upping your calories by 20%, you can't gain without increasing your calories even on AAS.

This is probably not the answer you wanted to hear but long term IMHO you will benefit more.


#3

I will start off by saying that as you mentioned there are several opinions floating around about useage at a young age. Some of the opinions have merit, some dont. Alot of words you have read, stem from jealousy that you will be able to achieve things quicker and easier than those who did not find out about the gear until later on. There are also words that come unfortunately come from experience, either personal or "friends of theirs" where permanent hormonal shifts were created thus altering the persons lifestyle for the rest of their life. This can occur to anyone of any age, however, it would be accelerated for a younger person, whose natural hormones are still drastically fluctuating and regulating.

Its of note, mentioning that I have never used any gear and I am still researching presently myself. I am weighing the issues of health, cost, most importantly job security, and then the "cheater" aspect. If gear was legal, I would be doing it so you can see where I stand on the cheater aspects.

Now you can take this as you will...
My personal feelings are that at 6'4" and 205 you do not require additional aid to get where you need to go...for now. Everyone, juiced or otherwise, gets stuck in training plateaus. You have to figure out how to break out of it...gear might be a way to do that, but you risk altering your natural production, where from now on you will not produce enough T to maintain what you already have, and then more health related sides. I will draw a comparison...I am 5'10" and have just recently been able to hold over 205 for a couple weeks. I thought I had diet "dialed in" before, I didnt. I still dont. I thought I trained "hardcore" before, I didnt. I do now. I have been training for about 13 years (through junior high, high school, undergrad and grad school and now). I am fixing to be 26. You have only been training for three years. If you have only been through one plateau or training rut, you are lucky.

I thought I was a bad ass (ok, I still think I am a bad ass, but thats beside the point) back in high school and first into college. Actually, I should say that I thought I knew everything back then, I didnt (and Im actually a pretty smart guy). I can look back at myself now and laugh at what I thought I was then. I really was nothing compared to what I thought I was. If I would have taken gear then, it would have done me no good. I didnt train or eat properly even though I thought I did. Sure I could bench 300-325 and squat 400-425 when I was 20/21 years old, but it was a miracle considering everything else.

I suggest you re-evaluate your situation and see if you think you really are mature enough. I am not saying that you arent. It may be the right time for you to jump the bridge over to the other side. Its just good to step back and honestly look at yourself from time to time.

Only do a cycle that you design, not your friend. Sure take your friends input, but dont be swayed by what he thinks or tells you. Make your own educated decisions regarding your life.

I wouldnt worry about stunting your growth either. Growth is just one side affect though.

You havent searched ALL the posts. :slight_smile:

As mentioned at the beginning, there are valid and bogus reasons for people giving "testimonials" that they did. You have heard my ideals. You have to decide side I (and they) am (are) speaking from. Is it jealousy? Is it sincerity? I wish I knew, most likely some of each side for me personally.

My conclusion is that you should get a reputable prohormone supplement (I wont plug anything in particular), some creatine, etc (assuming your diet is indeed valid) and see if you can start some new growth while you contemplate.

At 20, Im sad to say, you dont know it all, regardless of what we want to think at the time. You know alot, only you can determine if it is enough.


#4

I learned to work out and make myself grow over 5 years of lifting, but only 2 of these years I would call effective lifting with a great diet. Then, when I was 20 I did my first cycle of mag 10, and I gained 9 lbs of muscle...

Then, 3 months later I did a small cycle of test&deca, and grew 10 more lbs. In total, I gained 25 pounds of muscle when I was 20 years old.

There is no growth stunting when your epiphyseal plates are already fused (ie./ you're older than 18).

If someone is DAMN serious, then they can start using AAS at a younger age, IMHO. I am happy that I started using when I did. I plan on competing either this year or next, and let me tell you that would NOT be possible without my using AAS at the age of 20. If I had not used, I would probably still be a floundering natural athlete, desperate to gain a few extra lbs of muscle, nowhere near a competition physique.


#5

are you 20 or 28? you mentioned you were 20 but later said your friend is 28 also. that being said. the above advice is good advice. it would only benefit you to wait. if you insist in juicing then keep it very simple and keep cycles few and far between. something like test cyp or enanthate at 500mgs/wk(8 weeks) and dbol at 25mgs/ed(6 weeks) would be all you need to use. but again, you probably arent there yet.


#6

Do a few cycles of mag-10, m-1-t, 4mhon, and other PH's. If you can't gain the better part of 20 + lbs off that + solid eating/smart training/and rest then I'd say you're not ready. If you can then shit, you're that much bigger/more experienced and should probably be ready. Either way I kinda think 20 is too young, but that's my opinion.


#7

Just to point something out, despite how people refer to it M-1-T is not a pro-hormone it's a (temporarily) legal steroid. So are Methydien/dienolone and many others, don't confuse these with things like 4-AD. . .

Personally I think at 6'4" and 205 lbs you're still pretty slim and could easily add a lot more muscle at a good rate naturally. Whether you choose to use or not I would add at least 20 more pounds on your own before you make the decision.

STU


#8

Thanks for all the insightful advice. I have decided to wait for the time being. I do believe I will juice in the future, however I want to get some more gains naturally. I have some Mag-10 laying around, I think I'll go on a "cycle" of that, eat more, lift to the best of my ability and see where it gets me. Maybe next year at this time if I feel I have progressed at a good rate I'll try a simple cycle. Cheers.

Oh and fyi, I'm 20 to the poster who was confused. My friend is 28.

-Brandon


#9

4-AD is a pro-hormone. All prohormones are also steroids...


#10

Yes but not all steroids are pro-hormones. . .

I'm just saying that M-1-T is not a pro-hormone, it's a steroid. 4-AD on the other hand is a pro-hormone.

STU