T Nation

Fertility Recovery, to Use HCG or Not


#1

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but here goes.

Quickest way to restore fertility during pct.

Brief background: I had been on 250 - 500mg test with a few extras thrown in at different times from January 2014 to January 2016. Stopped all gear in February 2016. Had a few hormone tests Sperm count tests and all come back with very low ranges.
Below is Nov 2016

Started 50mg clomid daily, within 2 months December 2016, here are my results. As you can see everything looks fine, sperm test results are also very good.

Below is April 2017, still taking 50mg clomid for fertility, everything still looks fine, sperm test results are also good.

I haven’t had any success with getting my wife pregnant, found out her hormone levels are poor and we need to try IVF treatment.
Decided to short light cycle of anavar before we head down the long and stressful path of IVF treatment.

So at beginning of this month (may) I started a 6 week cycle of anavar at 50mg day, I also take 500iu HCG every third day, the cycle will finish in 4 weeks. So, I will start pct in 4 weeks from now with the usual clomid and nolva.

My main objective is to become fertile with good quality sperm ASAP after my cycle finishes, as my partner wants to have IVF treatment.

The question is weather or not I should continue to take HCG during pct, because of the 2 conflicting points below.

Point 1: Everywhere I read people say that HCG should be stopped at the beginning of a clomid/nolva pct for HPTA recovery.

Point 2: However, I have also read that the most effective protocol to improve fertility after coming off steroids (not during pct) is the combination of both HCG and clomid.

Please help me understand the difference between point 1 and point 2 above, and what is the best path for my situation.


#2

See HPTA restart sticky as suggested below.
Please see the 2 prior stickies as part of the learning curve.
These will address your questions.

SERM dose has been too high. 25mg clomid every other day, EOD, should have been adequate.

We see doctors prescribe doses of Clomid and hCG that are too high because they really do not have a good understanding.

Why did LH/FSH fall on same dose of Clomid. Did you miss some doses?
This is a big concern. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Estrogen on last lab report is too high because Clomid dose is too high.
What kind of estrogen? Should test E2 estradiol.
[Total estrogens also not good lab type.]

What is the point of anavar?
Do not take hCG+clomid together.
250iu hCG subq EOD is a LH replacement dose, but then FSH–>zero and FSH is important for sperm production.

Thyroid is important and iodine is important for female fertility carrying to term and well being of the baby. You both can check thyroid function via last paragraph in this post.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • HPTA restart <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#3

Thank you Ksman for you reply.

To answer you questions:

  1. Why did LH/FSH fall on same dose of Clomid. Did you miss some doses?

I have no idea why my LH/FSH levels fell. I didn’t miss any doses or change the dose. Could have been a result of too high a dose of clomid for too long? I wasn’t too concerned about this as my sperm count results were still very good, which is my main concern. However, I am fully aware that my LH/FSH levels are what regulate sperm.

  1. What is the point of anavar?

I decided to take anavar as I wanted to do a light steroid cycle as a reward to myself for being steroid free for almost 1.5 years while trying to get my wife pregnant and I know I may have another long road ahead of not being able to take any steroids as we will soon start IVF treatment.


#4

You can do SERM, then SERM+gear, then back to SERM, not PCT involved there and you end up back to where you are now.

High LH/FSH is messing with E2 and may mess with LH receptors. SERM dose is still too high…

LH creates high enough intratesticular T to make sperm and FSH is needed for that to work quite well. So it is more in intratesticular_T + FSH


#5

So my best plan of action is in 4 weeks from now, when I finish my low does Anavar with HCG, stop both Anavar and HCG then go on to clomid at 25mg EOD to get sperm back up ASAP to start IVF treatment.
Is my thinking correct?


#6

That will work, or go hCG–>clomid at any time.