Female, 24, I'm at That Point in My Life

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
Lets not get carried away with this. I’ve never recorded what I eat and have achieved a 2nd degree black belt. Nutrition is important,however, IMO, a person can eat what they want within reason as long as they are training hard.[/quote]

I’m absolutely sure you can achieve performance goals without much attention to nutrition, but the OP’s goal is physique related and therefore directly related to her nutrition so not tracking it seems completely self-defeating. Without being being too harsh on the OP, I also seriously question her ability to train hard at this stage in her training life.
[/quote]

but if you can’t train yourself to record what you’re eating everyday, you’re also going to be shit out of luck hitting any other goal in life

I was responding directly to this. I understand that a food log will work,if utilized. I also feel confident that if rubberducky did say 3 sessions of taekwondo and 3 intense weight training sessions a week, she would be well on her way. Throw in a paleo type diet and occasional cheat meals…good to go. Would a food log and weighing food be best? Yes. Necessary? Probably not. IMO

22

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]rubberducky7o3 wrote:
I can do 10 horrifying pushups in a row[/quote]
Are these full push-ups with straight legs and just hands and toes on the floor, or with your knees bent?

Figuring you mean a legit pull-up, just grabbing an overhead bar and doing an unassisted rep, this is already better than most women.

Your goals are definitely doable, but I agree that dialing in your nutrition is key. Keep it simple. If “paleo” catches your eye, then give it a fair shot. But the worst thing you can do is try fad after fad after fad.

Because you’ve been trying to figure stuff out for a bunch of years, I think you need to consider setting up basic lifestyle fixes instead of focusing on short-term 4-12 week plans. Did you finish the V-Diet a few years ago? How were your results?

For nutrition, check these:

For training, there are tons of choices. I’d consider a plan from here:

Or Chad Waterbury’s TBT program that you did a million years ago. That’s a very solid and straightforward routine.

Plus some cardio like this after each lifting session. 10-15 minutes tops:

Hard and brief conditioning work will carryover more towards your goals. If you’re going to use a treadmill, crank up the incline crazy-high and march on, without holding the handrails. If your gym has a heavy bag, throw some kicks for rounds. Or read up about “complexes”.[/quote]

10 normal push-ups with toes on the ground although I’m sure by rep 5 by form is bad.

Yes one legit pull up and on a good day I mean somedays I can’t do one at all and have no idea why the next day I can. Must be lack of will power. I’m here to change that. (We have a pull up bar in the kitchen…my dad and brother crank them out all day)

I will definitely check out your links thanks so much.

The V-diet was a disaster I didn’t have the right lifestyle for a diet plan that strict. I ran out of stuff after the first week. That was my bad lots of factors I should have seen why that was a bad idea.

I don’t even remember the TBT program.

I have a problem with being inconsistent. That’s really why I’m back on T Nation. For the support and the frame work. Thanks for your help!

23

[quote]rubberducky7o3 wrote:
I need to focus on groceries and meal prep–which I used to find really fun and now it’s a task. Any good tips and tricks for meal prep? I find I can only do about two days at a time before the food is no longer appetizing. Unless it’s plain chicken and steamed broc because that was already unappetizing.
[/quote]

Re: groceries and meal-prep, this will become very intuitive for you pretty quickly. Stay out of the aisles with stuff in boxes. Buy a bunch of produce, a bunch of meat, some dairy if you’ll go there (this is one of those hotly-debated-who-can-be-the-most-Paleo things; some will, others won’t. I do still consume some dairy, but prioritize high-quality dairy. Full-fat milk and yogurt from grass-fed cows. Kerrygold butter, also from grass-fed cows. Stuff like that).

I have my staples that I buy every single week (sweet potatoes, onions, some type of leafy green, Brussels sprouts, eggs, bacon, and some assorted meats) and then I try to buy one or two “weird” things every time I go to the store. For example, last night I bought a celery root and made a puree from it mixed with apples and a potato. It was like sweet mashed potatoes. You’ll figure out which stuff you want every-single-week and what other random items you’ll pick up more sporadically.

As far as meal-prep, I don’t think Paleo meals are any more demanding than non-Paleo meals, although you will have to start cooking most of your own food (I think some people are just used to ordering a pizza when they don’t feel like cooking, and this can be hard for them). Make friends with your slow cooker; you can prepare many, many delectable Paleo meals in a slow cooker, things you can get going in the AM while you sip the morning coffee and come home to in the evening, ready-to-eat, after you hit the gym or whatever you’re doing.

24

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]rubberducky7o3 wrote:
I need to focus on groceries and meal prep–which I used to find really fun and now it’s a task. Any good tips and tricks for meal prep? I find I can only do about two days at a time before the food is no longer appetizing. Unless it’s plain chicken and steamed broc because that was already unappetizing.
[/quote]

Re: groceries and meal-prep, this will become very intuitive for you pretty quickly. Stay out of the aisles with stuff in boxes. Buy a bunch of produce, a bunch of meat, some dairy if you’ll go there (this is one of those hotly-debated-who-can-be-the-most-Paleo things; some will, others won’t. I do still consume some dairy, but prioritize high-quality dairy. Full-fat milk and yogurt from grass-fed cows. Kerrygold butter, also from grass-fed cows. Stuff like that).

I have my staples that I buy every single week (sweet potatoes, onions, some type of leafy green, Brussels sprouts, eggs, bacon, and some assorted meats) and then I try to buy one or two “weird” things every time I go to the store. For example, last night I bought a celery root and made a puree from it mixed with apples and a potato. It was like sweet mashed potatoes. You’ll figure out which stuff you want every-single-week and what other random items you’ll pick up more sporadically.

As far as meal-prep, I don’t think Paleo meals are any more demanding than non-Paleo meals, although you will have to start cooking most of your own food (I think some people are just used to ordering a pizza when they don’t feel like cooking, and this can be hard for them). Make friends with your slow cooker; you can prepare many, many delectable Paleo meals in a slow cooker, things you can get going in the AM while you sip the morning coffee and come home to in the evening, ready-to-eat, after you hit the gym or whatever you’re doing.[/quote]

Cooking and buying healthy foods are not foreign to me so that’s good. I’m coming from a place that won’t be culture shock getting back into healthy eating and exercising. Healthy eating is a mind game for me. As soon as I tell myself “no” I want it. Right now I tell myself I can eat whatever I want and most of the time, most, I eat healthy, make my own meals, use EVOO or coconut oil, lots of veggies, whole grains, fresh juices, fruit smoothies made with just milk or water, no yogurts or ice creams. Cutting dairy isn’t a problem because I’m pretty sure I’m not supposed to eat dairy anyways because of digestive issues.

My schedule might be a problem because I am also a substitute teacher along with retail with no set schedule–EVER. All the more reason meal prep is necessary for me.

Haven’t had time to read the articles you posted yet. Look forward to it. Thanks for the advice.

25

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
Lets not get carried away with this. I’ve never recorded what I eat and have achieved a 2nd degree black belt. Nutrition is important,however, IMO, a person can eat what they want within reason as long as they are training hard.[/quote]

I’m absolutely sure you can achieve performance goals without much attention to nutrition, but the OP’s goal is physique related and therefore directly related to her nutrition so not tracking it seems completely self-defeating. Without being being too harsh on the OP, I also seriously question her ability to train hard at this stage in her training life.
[/quote]

but if you can’t train yourself to record what you’re eating everyday, you’re also going to be shit out of luck hitting any other goal in life

I was responding directly to this. I understand that a food log will work,if utilized. I also feel confident that if rubberducky did say 3 sessions of taekwondo and 3 intense weight training sessions a week, she would be well on her way. Throw in a paleo type diet and occasional cheat meals…good to go. Would a food log and weighing food be best? Yes. Necessary? Probably not. IMO[/quote]

This particular line was meant to imply that the ability to consistently keep a food diary was of great value in and of itself.

I think that we agree that a food diary falls into the same category as a training journal, useful but not essential.

26

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
Lets not get carried away with this. I’ve never recorded what I eat and have achieved a 2nd degree black belt. Nutrition is important,however, IMO, a person can eat what they want within reason as long as they are training hard.[/quote]

I’m absolutely sure you can achieve performance goals without much attention to nutrition, but the OP’s goal is physique related and therefore directly related to her nutrition so not tracking it seems completely self-defeating. Without being being too harsh on the OP, I also seriously question her ability to train hard at this stage in her training life.
[/quote]

but if you can’t train yourself to record what you’re eating everyday, you’re also going to be shit out of luck hitting any other goal in life

I was responding directly to this. I understand that a food log will work,if utilized. I also feel confident that if rubberducky did say 3 sessions of taekwondo and 3 intense weight training sessions a week, she would be well on her way. Throw in a paleo type diet and occasional cheat meals…good to go. Would a food log and weighing food be best? Yes. Necessary? Probably not. IMO[/quote]

This particular line was meant to imply that the ability to consistently keep a food diary was of great value in and of itself.

I think that we agree that a food diary falls into the same category as a training journal, useful but not essential.
[/quote]

Thought I would chime in on the food diary debate. In the past I’ve kept very detailed logs not just for food but for workouts. I’ve kept general logs. And I’ve not logged at all. Logging helps, definitely! If I am dieting and working out and see no results I can go to the log and find out exactly what the problem is/was.

However, that being said, I am trying to improve my diet and exercise long-term, not short-term. The idea of documenting everything I put into my body feels tedious and monotonous. After reading the article about nutrition that was posted earlier, I think it’s best to write down foods to buy, foods to make, and if I find I’m not progressing, I will start jotting down what/when/why I’m eating as an adjustment for better results.

Thank you for your advice. I understand each point you guys were making and will consider both arguments and find what works best for me.

27

Good stuff rubberducky. I think that’s an intelligent approach. Logging evrything all the time forever seems a bit daunting. Of course not to everyone,some folks thrive on it and actually enjoy it. For many just starting out,it can seem overwhelming. So,if you do a loose paleo or something,and after a while you see it isn’t working,try doing a food journal. I say try the easiest thing first,which is blasphemy to hard core fitness people.

A guy I learned a lot from said Go to the gym,do the minimal amount of work it takes to get your muscles to grow,then get the hell out of there and go enjoy your life. Think about this. If you aren’t currently gaining weight,or maybe just a little,changing just a few things in your lifestyle will help you lose weight. Maybe even changing only ONE thing is all that’s needed. I know that sounds crazy and overly simple to some.

I believe in making changes you can do for the rest of your life. That’s why a lot of diets and training programs don’t work. People hit a physical,mental,and emotional wall, and then give up. I do recommend.you learn to lift weights properly tho,you wanna get those shoulders and arms you mentioned:)

28

[quote]confusion wrote:
Good stuff rubberducky. I think that’s an intelligent approach. Logging evrything all the time forever seems a bit daunting. Of course not to everyone,some folks thrive on it and actually enjoy it. For many just starting out,it can seem overwhelming. So,if you do a loose paleo or something,and after a while you see it isn’t working,try doing a food journal. I say try the easiest thing first,which is blasphemy to hard core fitness people.

A guy I learned a lot from said Go to the gym,do the minimal amount of work it takes to get your muscles to grow,then get the hell out of there and go enjoy your life. Think about this. If you aren’t currently gaining weight,or maybe just a little,changing just a few things in your lifestyle will help you lose weight. Maybe even changing only ONE thing is all that’s needed. I know that sounds crazy and overly simple to some.

I believe in making changes you can do for the rest of your life. That’s why a lot of diets and training programs don’t work. People hit a physical,mental,and emotional wall, and then give up. I do recommend.you learn to lift weights properly tho,you wanna get those shoulders and arms you mentioned:) [/quote]

Changing one thing can change a lot. I actually decided to be a vegetarian for a year and gained oh about 10-15 pounds. I was eating the WRONG stuff to make up for lack of meat. And then decided to eat meat again and lost probably 7-10 pounds over the course of a few months. I was definitely more bloated when I didn’t eat meat. So, unfortunately, even though it goes against my morals, I eat meat now. But, I try to get meats that come from local farms. Although, my paycheck fights me on that at the moment.

29

I guess I’ll add one more voice to the cacophony:

I think that most everyone can benefit from at least a brief time logging everything in some detail. After they have already done that - as OP has - whether they continue to do so is a personal choice. Some will thrive on it, others will not. My own experience is that a brief time logging everything generally increased my “food awareness” and I no longer feel that it’s necessary to log (although, if I were dieting into a contest or something like that, I probably would feel differently).

Since OP has already logged and had that initial experience, I think a more general approach is fine. As I have said, OP, in my forays into the “mostly-Paleo-diet” approach, I have settled nicely into a bucket of weekly staples (like I said: every week, five sweet potatoes, a bag of yellow onions, a leafy green, a bag of Brussels sprouts, a dozen eggs, a good package of bacon, a few select meats) and then the odd bonus items here and there (Kerrygold butter, coconut oil, full-fat grass-fed yogurt, and a “weird” vegetable every week). Having that combo of “every week” items plus the “bonus” item or two has made grocery shopping very, very easy and highly enjoyable (picking the bonus items is always fun).

30

[quote]confusion wrote:
Good stuff rubberducky. I think that’s an intelligent approach. Logging evrything all the time forever seems a bit daunting. Of course not to everyone,some folks thrive on it and actually enjoy it. For many just starting out,it can seem overwhelming. So,if you do a loose paleo or something,and after a while you see it isn’t working,try doing a food journal. I say try the easiest thing first,which is blasphemy to hard core fitness people.

A guy I learned a lot from said Go to the gym,do the minimal amount of work it takes to get your muscles to grow,then get the hell out of there and go enjoy your life. Think about this. If you aren’t currently gaining weight,or maybe just a little,changing just a few things in your lifestyle will help you lose weight. Maybe even changing only ONE thing is all that’s needed. I know that sounds crazy and overly simple to some.

I believe in making changes you can do for the rest of your life. That’s why a lot of diets and training programs don’t work. People hit a physical,mental,and emotional wall, and then give up. I do recommend.you learn to lift weights properly tho,you wanna get those shoulders and arms you mentioned:) [/quote]

100% agree with all of this.

31

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
I think that most everyone can benefit from at least a brief time logging everything in some detail. After they have already done that - as OP has - whether they continue to do so is a personal choice. Some will thrive on it, others will not. My own experience is that a brief time logging everything generally increased my “food awareness” and I no longer feel that it’s necessary to log (although, if I were dieting into a contest or something like that, I probably would feel differently).

Since OP has already logged and had that initial experience, I think a more general approach is fine. As I have said, OP, in my forays into the “mostly-Paleo-diet” approach, I have settled nicely into a bucket of weekly staples (like I said: every week, five sweet potatoes, a bag of yellow onions, a leafy green, a bag of Brussels sprouts, a dozen eggs, a good package of bacon, a few select meats) and then the odd bonus items here and there (Kerrygold butter, coconut oil, full-fat grass-fed yogurt, and a “weird” vegetable every week). Having that combo of “every week” items plus the “bonus” item or two has made grocery shopping very, very easy and highly enjoyable (picking the bonus items is always fun).[/quote]
Worth repeating! Once one has spent time logging, they have a better idea of how to keep track and measure progress. Sometimes the ole mirror can lie a little.

32

[quote]rubberducky7o3 wrote:
I actually decided to be a vegetarian for a year and gained oh about 10-15 pounds. I was eating the WRONG stuff to make up for lack of meat. And then decided to eat meat again and lost probably 7-10 pounds over the course of a few months. I was definitely more bloated when I didn’t eat meat.[/quote]
I went vegetarian/vegan for two month a few years ago and accidentally lost 12 pounds. Making the right food choices are (obviously) critical, even moreso when you avoid meat (or go gluten-free or kosher or any other food-avoiding diet plan). It’s too easy to overestimate the quality and underestimate the quantity you actually get each day.

You should not and do not have to compromise your personal morals to achieve your fitness goals. If you do, there’s always going to be an underlying “Geez, I don’t really wanna be doing this”-voice in the back of your head.

If you want to avoid animal proteins (red meat, pork, poultry, fish, dairy, whatever), that’s 100% fine and won’t necessarily interfere with your results. But it will mean you’ll have to be that much more on point with your meal planning. Particularly, getting quality protein without overdoing carbs seems to be the trickiest part.

33

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
I have settled nicely into a bucket of weekly staples (like I said: every week, five sweet potatoes, a bag of yellow onions, a leafy green, a bag of Brussels sprouts, a dozen eggs, a good package of bacon, a few select meats) and then the odd bonus items here and there (Kerrygold butter, coconut oil, full-fat grass-fed yogurt, and a “weird” vegetable every week). Having that combo of “every week” items plus the “bonus” item or two has made grocery shopping very, very easy and highly enjoyable (picking the bonus items is always fun).[/quote]
I like this idea; I’d never really considered structuring things that way. I’ve done the “must eat this every day”, but I like the flexibility built into spreading that out over a week.

34

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Eat better. Nothing you do in the gym will make a difference without this. Sadly, it’s also the hardest part.

Lift weights three times a week.

Do high intensity interval training twice a week.

Get a better job, move out your parents’ house.[/quote]

This.

35

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
I have settled nicely into a bucket of weekly staples (like I said: every week, five sweet potatoes, a bag of yellow onions, a leafy green, a bag of Brussels sprouts, a dozen eggs, a good package of bacon, a few select meats) and then the odd bonus items here and there (Kerrygold butter, coconut oil, full-fat grass-fed yogurt, and a “weird” vegetable every week). Having that combo of “every week” items plus the “bonus” item or two has made grocery shopping very, very easy and highly enjoyable (picking the bonus items is always fun).[/quote]
I like this idea; I’d never really considered structuring things that way. I’ve done the “must eat this every day”, but I like the flexibility built into spreading that out over a week.[/quote]

It works out really great. Sort of self-regulating in that I buy X pounds of meat, X pounds of vegetables, one or two treats…and then that’s just what I have around for the rest of the week. If I eat all of my sweet potatoes on Monday and Tuesday, because goshdangit that’s what I wanted to eat with my steak, welp, then it’s green veggies on the side for the rest of the week. If I eat all the bacon…you get the idea.

The intentional wild-card is fun too, because it introduces me to a new or rarely consumed food item almost every week. It’s led me to all kinds of fun stuff; most recently, celery root, and before that, plantains. A few weeks ago my GF and I made tacos in homemade plantain tortillas that worked out better than I could have dreamed.

36

How bout you just get on a strength program, something like starting strength and stick to it. Not to be mean or anything but you have absolutely no foundation so you can literally do anything and it’ll be considered an improvement. Just get on a strength program and stick to it, results are sure to come. As for diet, I wouldn’t worry too much, as long as you’re getting stronger, you’re on the right track.

As for mentality wise, I’d say try to rid yourself of the whole toned arms and small thighs thing. Don’t take my word for it, listen to Mark Rippetoe (esteemed strength coach)…

“The vast majority of women cannot get large, masculine muscles from barbell training. If it were that easy, I would have them.”

“Women who claim to be afraid to train hard because they ?always bulk up too much? are often already pretty bulky, or ?skinny fat? (thin but weak and deconditioned) and have found another excuse to continue life sitting on their butts.”

“You would look better if you gained about 10 lbs of muscle. Trust me, I’ve been looking at women a long time, and I’m really good at it.”

37

Haha

38

[quote]Benanything wrote:
Don’t take my word for it, listen to Mark Rippetoe (esteemed strength coach)…
[/quote]

Why would you listen to Mark Rippetoe about women’s physique goals? Why not ask a female physique competitor?

39

I’m pretty sure OP just wants to get healthier and competing in women’s physique isn’t too high on her list of priorities.

40

[quote]Benanything wrote:
How bout you just get on a strength program, something like starting strength and stick to it. Not to be mean or anything but you have absolutely no foundation so you can literally do anything and it’ll be considered an improvement. Just get on a strength program and stick to it, results are sure to come. As for diet, I wouldn’t worry too much, as long as you’re getting stronger, you’re on the right track.

As for mentality wise, I’d say try to rid yourself of the whole toned arms and small thighs thing. Don’t take my word for it, listen to Mark Rippetoe (esteemed strength coach)…

“The vast majority of women cannot get large, masculine muscles from barbell training. If it were that easy, I would have them.”

“Women who claim to be afraid to train hard because they ?always bulk up too much? are often already pretty bulky, or ?skinny fat? (thin but weak and deconditioned) and have found another excuse to continue life sitting on their butts.”

“You would look better if you gained about 10 lbs of muscle. Trust me, I’ve been looking at women a long time, and I’m really good at it.”
[/quote]

Thanks! Any recommendations for strength training? Links/articles?

Not worried about getting bulky, I know it’s possible, not common or easy for women, couldn’t care less how much muscle I have as long as I have some. And wanting to shed fat from thighs is what I meant…since I have so much thickness there from years of soccer. As in muscle that is easy to gain back for me.