T Nation

Feeling Traps During Rear Delts Exercises

ok, two months ago I started to train directly rear delts (band face pulls and dbs raises lying on a 45° bench),before I trained my rear delts just with heavy rowz,problem is that I feel my traps exhausted AFTER the rear delts work,it’s not just a feeling,poundages used for rope high rows or shrugs (for example)are down up to 50%…anyway,my front/side delts overpowering my rears; is this the reason for so much trap involvement during rear work?

Reason: EVERY rear delt exercise involves the traps: face pulls, bent over lateral raises, chinups, pulldowns, reverse pec deck flys, and rows.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Reason: EVERY rear delt exercise involves the traps: face pulls, bent over lateral raises, chinups, pulldowns, reverse pec deck flys, and rows. [/quote]

Basically what I was gonna say…so yeah, I’ll just echo this. If you AREN’T feeling them, you’re probably doing something wrong.

Scaps forward and partial rom, only bringing the arms back until the point where the scaps will start to retract works well for me. It’s also easier to isolate the delts with a pec fly/rear delt machine than using dbs.

I find that if you limit your ROM while performing bent laterals on an incline bench (the bottom 2/3s of the movement), you can maintain more constant stress on the read delts, and limit the assistance naturally provided by the other muscle groups.

S

Try watching this, good explanation how to hit the rear delts while minimizing upper back involvement.

I know this response has been posted frequently, but it’s definitely relevant here. Check out Meadows’ rear delt stuff…you’ll be happy you did.

Hey ebomb (or anyone) I’ve been reading Meadows shoulder article

And I was wondering, with Meadows stuff is it all high rep (30+ reps) on every set of every exercise? Doing that, you wouldn’t really be able to ramp weight right? It seems like doing that high of reps ramping weight would be hard to do.

How would you progress on an exercise like this? That high of reps it would be hard to add weight to im guessing. Like most people I’ve always stuck in the 8-15 rep range for shoulders.

Seems like his methods would be much better for me, especially since a wrist injury/surgery makes it difficult to do normal db laterals. Lighter weight + higher reps would be easier on my wrist. Not sure if heavy partial laterals are doable but im interested, I’d like some clarification.

many thanx fellas, very appreciated.

[quote]fisch wrote:
Hey ebomb (or anyone) I’ve been reading Meadows shoulder article

And I was wondering, with Meadows stuff is it all high rep (30+ reps) on every set of every exercise? Doing that, you wouldn’t really be able to ramp weight right? It seems like doing that high of reps ramping weight would be hard to do.

How would you progress on an exercise like this? That high of reps it would be hard to add weight to im guessing. Like most people I’ve always stuck in the 8-15 rep range for shoulders.

Seems like his methods would be much better for me, especially since a wrist injury/surgery makes it difficult to do normal db laterals. Lighter weight + higher reps would be easier on my wrist. Not sure if heavy partial laterals are doable but im interested, I’d like some clarification.[/quote]

Not all of his exercises are done for high reps, but many are. IMO, if you’re training purely for hypertrophy, or that is your primary goal, you need to care less about the weight being lifted and more about the form, MMC, and quality of each repetition. You still can try to progress in weight, but there are other ways to gauge progress than simply more poundage, such as what I listed in the previous sentence.

I’d give em’ a go and see how they feel. That’s what’s truly important, especially with a muscle group like delts where too many people fail to achieve the MMC necessary to develop them.

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:
Hey ebomb (or anyone) I’ve been reading Meadows shoulder article

And I was wondering, with Meadows stuff is it all high rep (30+ reps) on every set of every exercise? Doing that, you wouldn’t really be able to ramp weight right? It seems like doing that high of reps ramping weight would be hard to do.

How would you progress on an exercise like this? That high of reps it would be hard to add weight to im guessing. Like most people I’ve always stuck in the 8-15 rep range for shoulders.

Seems like his methods would be much better for me, especially since a wrist injury/surgery makes it difficult to do normal db laterals. Lighter weight + higher reps would be easier on my wrist. Not sure if heavy partial laterals are doable but im interested, I’d like some clarification.[/quote]

Not all of his exercises are done for high reps, but many are. IMO, if you’re training purely for hypertrophy, or that is your primary goal, you need to care less about the weight being lifted and more about the form, MMC, and quality of each repetition. You still can try to progress in weight, but there are other ways to gauge progress than simply more poundage, such as what I listed in the previous sentence.

I’d give em’ a go and see how they feel. That’s what’s truly important, especially with a muscle group like delts where too many people fail to achieve the MMC necessary to develop them.
[/quote]

Ok thanks for the response. It’s still hard for me to wrap my head around not trying to add weight to an exercise. In my mind it’s still hard to understand how you judge progress without trying to increase weight, but you and multiple other high level guys keep advocating MMC and feeling the muscle instead of weight so obviously it works. I’ll have to try it out and see how it goes.

Do you have like 1 or 2 exercises where your main goal is to try to add weight and do the rest where you mostly focus on MMC, feel, and quality? Or are all your exercises done focusing on MMC, feel, and quality?

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
IMO, if you’re training purely for hypertrophy, or that is your primary goal, you need to care less about the weight being lifted and more about the form, MMC, and quality of each repetition. You still can try to progress in weight, but there are other ways to gauge progress than simply more poundage
[/quote]

^This. Some people seem to think that ‘progression’ is simply adding more weight, and will argue that approach forever despite a lack of size gains. It’s merely one piece of the puzzle. I don’t think I’ve raised the weights I use on my rear delt work in years, but they definitely have shown growth in size and detail. Better MMC, better quality reps etc.

If you don’t feel your target muscle doing the work, then what’s the point in simply making s
heavier weight move through space?

S

[quote]fisch wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:
Hey ebomb (or anyone) I’ve been reading Meadows shoulder article

And I was wondering, with Meadows stuff is it all high rep (30+ reps) on every set of every exercise? Doing that, you wouldn’t really be able to ramp weight right? It seems like doing that high of reps ramping weight would be hard to do.

How would you progress on an exercise like this? That high of reps it would be hard to add weight to im guessing. Like most people I’ve always stuck in the 8-15 rep range for shoulders.

Seems like his methods would be much better for me, especially since a wrist injury/surgery makes it difficult to do normal db laterals. Lighter weight + higher reps would be easier on my wrist. Not sure if heavy partial laterals are doable but im interested, I’d like some clarification.[/quote]

Not all of his exercises are done for high reps, but many are. IMO, if you’re training purely for hypertrophy, or that is your primary goal, you need to care less about the weight being lifted and more about the form, MMC, and quality of each repetition. You still can try to progress in weight, but there are other ways to gauge progress than simply more poundage, such as what I listed in the previous sentence.

I’d give em’ a go and see how they feel. That’s what’s truly important, especially with a muscle group like delts where too many people fail to achieve the MMC necessary to develop them.
[/quote]

Ok thanks for the response. It’s still hard for me to wrap my head around not trying to add weight to an exercise. In my mind it’s still hard to understand how you judge progress without trying to increase weight, but you and multiple other high level guys keep advocating MMC and feeling the muscle instead of weight so obviously it works. I’ll have to try it out and see how it goes.

Do you have like 1 or 2 exercises where your main goal is to try to add weight and do the rest where you mostly focus on MMC, feel, and quality? Or are all your exercises done focusing on MMC, feel, and quality?[/quote]

All exercises at this point for me, barring rack pulls, squats, and occasionally some pressing movement, are done with MMC/quality/feel as the focus…I’ve also made the best progress (in terms of hypertrophy) in my training life in the past 6 months or so.

why not do rear delts last?

thanks ebomb