[quote]Scotacus wrote:
I could be totally wrong as I admit I know next to nothing about powerlifting.
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No, you’re wrong for thinking a person has to be so locked into only one activity that they couldn’t possibly think outside of that box.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I do. For me, the mind-muscle connection is very important in lifting. If I don’t feel the lift, I feel that I’m not working hard enough. Maybe you don’t lift hard enough then.
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Im at the point that were I to simply add more weight my form would suffer, which suggests to me I am lifting enough.
[quote]
I find it kinda wierd you feel your joints more than your muscles. Do you have joint problems?[/quote]
No, not that Im aware of. Its just that that is where the tension is felt most, at the beginning of a push or through a pull movement.
[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Also, in the articles by him that Ive read, I dont recall him ever mentioning focusing on the muscle in this way.[/quote]
Power lifters are always talking about this kind of stuff:
“Spread the floor”
“Pull the bar apart with your hands”
“Pull through your heels”
All of these are ways of focusing the mind on which muscles ought to be dominating the movement.
[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Another question: is one more likely to feel the weight when doing slower reps as opposed to the fast concentric/eccentrics suggested by T-Nation writers lately? I try to move the weight as fast as possible (while of course using a relatively heavy weight). How fast do you move the weight?[/quote]
I think it’s clear you need to train with someone more experienced than you. It is extremely difficult to TYPE out how someone should feel a weight when they lift it.
Some of us didn’t have to work hard at feeling the target muscle group…just like some people don’t have to work hard and make their “R’s” roll when speaking foreign languages. If you do, find someone with more experience (read as much bigger muscles) and train with them for a while.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
You don’t feel a pump after a 20 rep set? I’ve never heard this before. I always get a pump whenever a set lasts 10 reps or more.
What then do you feel after doing those 20 reps?[/quote]
Definitely fatigued. I either go to failure or end a bit before. Last night was the damnest thing. I beat the previous week re volume for bench presses and then ended with another twenty reps at more than about 60% and couldnt get a pump.
Today, were it not for a bit of tightness, I wouldnt know I worked pecs at all, much less added weight and volume. Mind you I increased the amount of bcaa’s I normally take during workout, but my pecs just feel unworked. Would being overworked have the same effect?
[quote]DTLV wrote:
Power lifters are always talking about this kind of stuff:
“Pull the bar apart with your hands”
“Pull through your heels”
[/quote]
Ok, these I am familiar with, and now I do remember Tate mentioning this.
So it appears Im missing something then from the fucking workouts.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think it’s clear you need to train with someone more experienced than you. It is extremely difficult to TYPE out how someone should feel a weight when they lift it.
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Agreed. Was just trying to figure out if something was off. Ive lifted on and off for years but am getting into it more seriously, so some things I didnt think about before, I now am.
[quote]
Some of us didn’t have to work hard at feeling the target muscle group…just like some people don’t have to work hard and make their “R’s” roll when speaking foreign languages. If you do, find someone with more experience (read as much bigger muscles) and train with them for a while.[/quote]
Interesting point, that there is some intrinsic knowledge at work for some. I think its going to be something I have to work at, I guess, at the beginning anyway, the expense of amount lifted.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Here’s a couple things to try.
For back work, when doing rows try to start the movement with your shoulder (bring you shoulder blades together at the start of each rep) then focus on bringing your elbows(not hands) back. It should be one flowing movement not two separate movements.
Use a similar process for pull downs, but pull your shoulders down not back.
The other thing to try is spend time flexing. I strongly recommend to do this in private as doing it in the middle of the gym floor will make you look like a tool. 
Try flexing and holding the poses for 10-15 seconds (and I mean really hold them as tight as possible). Do this for 10-15 minutes a few times per week and you should start feeling your contractions.[/quote]
Thanks for the suggestions! Will definitely try that for the lats and the flexing also. Can you suggest any tips for pull-ups?
Let me also add that it may help if you slowed down and went back to the basics. If you don’t know the actions, insertions and origins of these muscle groups, then maybe you need to spend more time picking up an anatomy book. If you are clueless about what a muscle is supposed to do, you can’t possibly work it effectively.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Let me also add that it may help if you slowed down and went back to the basics. If you don’t know the actions, insertions and origins of these muscle groups, then maybe you need to spend more time picking up an anatomy book. If you are clueless about what a muscle is supposed to do, you can’t possibly work it effectively.[/quote]
Interesting. Recently I picked up Frederic Delavier’s Strenght Training Anatomy, 2nd ed. Was wondering though how to make best use of it. I figured that simply doing the movement would work the muscle. Will look at it again.
[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Let me also add that it may help if you slowed down and went back to the basics. If you don’t know the actions, insertions and origins of these muscle groups, then maybe you need to spend more time picking up an anatomy book. If you are clueless about what a muscle is supposed to do, you can’t possibly work it effectively.
Interesting. Recently I picked up Frederic Delavier’s Strenght Training Anatomy, 2nd ed. Was wondering though how to make best use of it. I figured that simply doing the movement would work the muscle. Will look at it again.[/quote]
That’s a good book, but fairly limited in information. I suggest something like Grant’s Anatomy. It has more detailed drawings of the musculoskeletal system as well as tables with the origins, insertions, and actions of each muscle.
[quote]luceb wrote:
That’s a good book, but fairly limited in information. I suggest something like Grant’s Anatomy. It has more detailed drawings of the musculoskeletal system as well as tables with the origins, insertions, and actions of each muscle.
[/quote]
Ok, will look out for it. Thanks.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< I think it’s clear you need to train with someone more experienced than you. It is extremely difficult to TYPE out how someone should feel a weight when they lift it.
[/quote]
Yes and yes.
It didn’t come to me from day one and I can’t point to a certain event and say “that’s when it happened”, but I can tell you I have no problem at the end of a workout with wondering whether I hit what I was after.
This is where I wish I’d had someone to help me early on because I’m sure I would’ve gotten further faster if somebody who knew what they were looking at could have given me some guidance.
Yes, I may not be able to find a partner but may utilize a session with a trainer. As I said, I am obviously gaining strength and size, so something is going right. However, this is an area I definitely need to focus on. Appreciate all the feedback. Cheers
What really helped me further develop the “mind-muscle connection” was exaggerating contractions.
For example: At the top portion of the biceps curl flex as hard as you can for 1 to 2 seconds.
Or at peak contraction on a pull up or row keep pulling (even though the bar can’t move back any more) and squeeze your lats together as hard as you can for a 2 second count before the eccentric phase of the lift.
These are just two examples but you can use this technique on any lift. Not saying you should do this all the time on every lift…but it definitely helped me “feel” the muscles more when I lift.
[quote]tpa wrote:
What really helped me further develop the “mind-muscle connection” was exaggerating contractions.
For example: At the top portion of the biceps curl flex as hard as you can for 1 to 2 seconds.
Or at peak contraction on a pull up or row keep pulling (even though the bar can’t move back any more) and squeeze your lats together as hard as you can for a 2 second count before the eccentric phase of the lift.
These are just two examples but you can use this technique on any lift. Not saying you should do this all the time on every lift…but it definitely helped me “feel” the muscles more when I lift.[/quote]
Thanks! I have been trying this, mostly with the pulling (seated cable rows). I may be using too much weight for these. I’ll lower the weight and concentrate on squeezing at the end of the movement, see how that goes.
Took a few weeks off due to a number of things. Anyway, getting back into it this week and I think Ive given my head some time to approach workouts with a different mindset.
Before, I was primarly concerned with increasing total exercise volume from previous week. Now, I am focusing on targeting the muscle. Towards this goal, I have lowered weight per rep significantly. It is hard to suddenly shift gears (from total weight moved to how it is moved), so the time off has helped do that.
Anyway, bench press was much different. Squeezed the weight up, considering a rep a failure if I felt it more in the delts than in the pecs. Am really concentrating on each rep in making that mind-muscle connection.
Followed this up with bent over BB rows. Nailed it. Felt every rep in the lats. In the past I noticed back exercises would be felt largely in the biceps.
Did something a little different with flyes: started a set again concentrating on quality of feel. Then did one armed flyes. This seemed to really intensify the feel and quality of work, being careful not to twist my back and keep my hips flat.
Good post. I find I feel the weight or get in the “groove” better when I give myself more warm up sets. I also feel the targeted muscle much better when I do my warm up reps faster with tempo.
For whatever reason, training faster makes me feel it in the belly of the muscle and not the joints.
The difference in results is significant (like Professor X said).
As a visualization technique I like to look at an anatomy chart and picture the action of the contraction of a muscle or group. Then immediately go do that exercise.
It seems to help focus in on that group and what is happening to create the movement.
I’ve also noticed in myself and some of the guys I’ve trained with that doing speed and max effort work increases the pain threshhold. There is a loss of the concious feeling of the weight and movement.