Feeling The Burn

[quote]IQ wrote:
rinkamd wrote:
Well I just came back from my chest workout but I still didn’t feel it in my chest, could it be that my shoulders are weaker than my chest so that’s why I kinda feel them more or is my chest just not developped enough to get a good pump since the muscle is small?

Here’s something you could try, simple but effective.

Stand in front of a mirror (so you can see your muscles), hold your arms out in front of you and replicate a horizontal pressing movement. When you have a mind muscle connection you should be able to squeeze extremely hard even without any external resistance. Practise until you can control the target muscle with ease then replicate the contraction when you lift.

As for the people telling you that feeling the target muscle isn’t important, just remember that when you know how to lift properly you’ll never have an unproductive workout again. Even if I have one of those days when I just can’t lift the weights I usually can I still leave the gym feeling just like usual.[/quote]

As usual I’m with IQ here. Great idea and yes, once you learn to effectively contract your muscles the guesswork is over. You will know without a doubt how well what you’re doing is working, during a set, the course of a workout and over time.

Another related aspect of this is that once you get dialed in your efficiency quotient will go through the roof. Meaning you can get more productive stimulus out of less overall work. I don’t intend that as a plug for any particular volume or frequency plan, but just in general. Every rep contributes to your progress.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
<<< Up your intesity. It is enevitable you’ll get a burn and a pump when you do. >>>[/quote]

I’m just in the mood to start some shit so I think I will especially since I believe the overall discussion will help this guy and others like him.

In my view the mind/muscle connection, the pump and soreness are largely a package deal.

Nothing along these lines is exceptionless, but most guys who know how to work what they’re after will get pumped and sore to some degree if they’re working hard enough to do any good. To me it’s not a matter of “should I get a pump” it’s a matter of how the hell are people avoiding it. I do nothing whatsoever to intentionally try to get pumped, but I do every single workout. Muscles that are worked hard are injured and injured body parts attract blood. Injured body parts also hurt and the pain doesn’t go away until the injury heals, hence soreness.

Lemme put it like this. There are no doubt people who don’t get too pumped or sore who make good progress. However, I bet we could fill a stadium with people who don’t get pumped or sore and barely progress despite eating and resting properly. I also bet it would be tough to find anybody who’s eating and resting properly who does get pumped and sore in the target muscles who isn’t growing.

Yeah I guess this is part of the problem too, I can’t contract my chest muscles at all, altough I can contract them a bit if I kinda push my arms and my lats. Is there any tricks to learn how to contract muscles? I guess some people just do it naturally but I’m sure someone else had my problem. By the way, thanks a lot of helping out guys.

All right, excellent points made by Tirib and a few others.

However, Tirib (and a few others), what do you say about next day soreness?

Just for example,

I will squat, A2G, working up to the point where I am doing sets of 3 and 2, (reverse pyramid?) - with sets of 12, 10, 8 , 6, 3, 3, 3, 6, 8, 10. After my workout I take the stairs out of the gym no prob.

Next few days though I take stairs (any stairs) quite gingerly; I get out of bed and my legs are screaming; it is labour to squat to tie my shoes – iow, my legs are buggered. And Im taking 40 grams of BCAA peri-workout, or Im sure next day(s) soreness would be even worse. Yet, again, not a thing during or immediately following exercise. Waddya think?

[quote]Scotacus wrote:
<<< Waddya think?[/quote]

Are you asking what I (we) think about the effect of the BCAA’s on DOMS? If so, my point was that I don’t believe the presence of DOMS is a necessary indicator of an inadequate diet. I do believe that careful, sound nutrition can and does lessen it. If that’s not what you mean I’m not sure what you’re saying.

Lemme also reiterate again that I’m not saying people should go out their way to get sore. Being sore to me isn’t a goal, but simply a “symptom” of progress for lack of a better way to express it at the moment.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Scotacus wrote:
<<< Waddya think?

Are you asking what I (we) think about the effect of the BCAA’s on DOMS? If so, my point was that I don’t believe the presence of DOMS is a necessary indicator of an inadequate diet. I do believe that careful, sound nutrition can and does lessen it. If that’s not what you mean I’m not sure what you’re saying.

Lemme also reiterate again that I’m not saying people should go out their way to get sore. Being sore to me isn’t a goal, but simply a “symptom” of progress for lack of a better way to express it at the moment.[/quote]

No. My question was in keeping with the discussion underway. I dont get sore during or immediately following exercise. I dont necessarily get that pump or burn, and do not necessarily feel the muscle when working,though am always taking steps to work towards that mind-muscle goal. However, next (few) day(s)…

So, is significant next day soreness in the areas targetted during the workout a good indication that the target muscles were worked (hence, as you mentioned, the damage, the blood flow etc etc) EVEN THOUGH there were no significant symptoms during or immediately following the workout? I merely mentioned the BCAAs to indicate the intensity of the (potential) soreness the days after the workout.

[quote]rinkamd wrote:
Yeah I guess this is part of the problem too, I can’t contract my chest muscles at all, altough I can contract them a bit if I kinda push my arms and my lats. Is there any tricks to learn how to contract muscles? I guess some people just do it naturally but I’m sure someone else had my problem. By the way, thanks a lot of helping out guys.[/quote]

Just re-posting in case you guys missed it, since someone took the thread into a little different direction.

[quote]Scotacus wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Scotacus wrote:
<<< Waddya think?

Are you asking what I (we) think about the effect of the BCAA’s on DOMS? If so, my point was that I don’t believe the presence of DOMS is a necessary indicator of an inadequate diet. I do believe that careful, sound nutrition can and does lessen it. If that’s not what you mean I’m not sure what you’re saying.

Lemme also reiterate again that I’m not saying people should go out their way to get sore. Being sore to me isn’t a goal, but simply a “symptom” of progress for lack of a better way to express it at the moment.

No. My question was in keeping with the discussion underway. I dont get sore during or immediately following exercise. I dont necessarily get that pump or burn, and do not necessarily feel the muscle when working,though am always taking steps to work towards that mind-muscle goal. However, next (few) day(s)…

So, is significant next day soreness in the areas targetted during the workout a good indication that the target muscles were worked (hence, as you mentioned, the damage, the blood flow etc etc) EVEN THOUGH there were no significant symptoms during or immediately following the workout? I merely mentioned the BCAAs to indicate the intensity of the (potential) soreness the days after the workout.[/quote]

OK, now I remember, you started a thread about this a while back. I don’t know what the deal is with you to be honest. I have never personally heard of anyone else who gets significantly sore the next day, but doesn’t feel the work while it’s happening. As then it seems like you feel that you’re missing something. If you’re progress is good that’s what matters most. If I remember right in the other thread you didn’t really say how you were progressing.

Honestly I can’t figure out how you could be working hard enough to get sore, but not feel the work. It would be easier to understand feeling the work, but not getting that sore. I don’t know.

[quote]rinkamd wrote:
rinkamd wrote:
Yeah I guess this is part of the problem too, I can’t contract my chest muscles at all, altough I can contract them a bit if I kinda push my arms and my lats. Is there any tricks to learn how to contract muscles? I guess some people just do it naturally but I’m sure someone else had my problem. By the way, thanks a lot of helping out guys.

Just re-posting in case you guys missed it, since someone took the thread into a little different direction.

[/quote]

You’re saying you tried what IQ was saying?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
rinkamd wrote:
rinkamd wrote:
Yeah I guess this is part of the problem too, I can’t contract my chest muscles at all, altough I can contract them a bit if I kinda push my arms and my lats. Is there any tricks to learn how to contract muscles? I guess some people just do it naturally but I’m sure someone else had my problem. By the way, thanks a lot of helping out guys.

Just re-posting in case you guys missed it, since someone took the thread into a little different direction.

You’re saying you tried what IQ was saying?[/quote]

I did, I don’t have it down yet but I will try more until I get it right.

[quote]rinkamd wrote:

You’re saying you tried what IQ was saying?

I did, I don’t have it down yet but I will try more until I get it right.
[/quote]

Here’s a tip, I find it easier if I arch my upper back a little, pull back my shoulders and stick out my chest while I do it (like when you squat). It probably has something to do with the reduced shoulder travel but I’m no expert.

In addition to all this maybe some Gironda style dumbbell presses. I’m in the middle of something, but I’ll try n find a video. It’s where you rotate your elbows toward each other as you press the weight.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
In addition to all this maybe some Gironda style dumbbell presses. I’m in the middle of something, but I’ll try n find a video. It’s where you rotate your elbows toward each other as you press the weight.[/quote]

Maybe somebody else can help here. I’m pretty certain it’s Gironda presses I’m thinking of and I cannot find a video. I don’t mean neck presses, but the ones where where you smoothly rotate you arms toward each other and squeeze the pecs at the top.