Feeling Drained on Second Day of HP Mass

I’ve been following the HP Mass program for the past four weeks with good results. My main objective is strength, which has slightly increased in this short time. I’ve been doing a 6-day plan with the strength workouts falling on these days:
Day 1 - Upper
Day 2 - Upper
Day 4 - Lower
Day 5 - Lower
Every time that I start the first day of Upper or Lower body, I feel great, explosive and very productive. On the second day, on the contrary, I’m feeling drained, weak and slow. I’ve even been dropping my MTW by 10 or more lbs on the second HP day just so I can keep the rep speed up.

I’m wondering:

  1. Would it be detrimental to set up the strength workouts like this instead:
    Day 1 - Upper
    Day 2 - Lower
    Day 4 - Upper
    Day 5 - Lower
    I have read the articles, but cannot find where it states that it’s more beneficial for x reason that setting up two straight days offers more benefits.

  2. Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what changes have you implemented?

I had the same experience you did. On the second day I would have to take longer rest periods and do minimal assistance work. I ended up switching the training days like you wrote and it worked better for me.

Well beacuse of my disc issue I have in my lower back and only going to a powerlifting gym once a week on a wednesday as its like a 45min drive, I had to alter the program for myself.

My setup is like this:
Day 1: 3 Upper + 1 Lower
Day 2: Neural charge workout
Day 3: 2 lower + leg assitance work (powerlifting gym so trap bar and back squatting)
Day 4: 3 Upper + I do 3 week cycles of shoulder circuits, then 3 weeks triceps, then chest for extra volume
Day 5: Back + Biceps
Day 6: 3 lower + 1 Upper
Day 7: Neural charge workout

Doing this I found I can train super hard all the time, get enough rest, and keep progressing. I hit an all time pr on the bench 10lbs increase in 3 weeks and any lower back pain I might have had has dimished almost completely even though I’m squatting 3 times a week. :slight_smile:

Hope this helps so you can an idea on changing the program if you have to.

I love concentrated loading (two upper days in a row for example) but because of my experience as an olympic lifter I’m used to this kind of training. Getting used to the high volume and frequency of HPmass is already hard, so you CAN do a few cycles with alternated days like you propose until your recovery capacity is good enough to handle concentrated loading.

See now you’re just turning this into a traditional upper/lower split.

Why not stick to the plan and take it easy on the first day? Just do the main lifts and stagger in some sets for traps, rhomboids and rear delts. Don’t even think about going to failure. Save all the assistance/isolation stuff for the second day. Done this way, you should if anything feel stronger the second day.

Just get some Anaconda :slight_smile:

Wait how are some of you guys hitting pr in your third week. The program doesn’t ask for pr only about 80% of 3rm

[quote]Mikeee wrote:
Wait how are some of you guys hitting pr in your third week. The program doesn’t ask for pr only about 80% of 3rm[/quote]

I think Diluted meant to say when he retested his 3RM he hit a PR. Maybe not though, but you’re right Mikeee, you’re not supposed to be going for a PR during the regular programming.

BUT, this is what CT always preaches. Some days you don’t feel great, so you go and do your work needed for THAT DAY and be done with it. Other days you might feel like a million dollars, and you KNOW you are much stronger than you usually are. I’d say it’s probably alright to go for a PR on those days when you know you’re going to kill it.

I’m just starting week 4 tomorrow, and OP, I can’t say I feel what you’re feeling. Maybe you go to hard on the assistance work, or you just haven’t built enough work capacity for this frequency of training. Are you doing the neural charge sessions? I was on winter break from college this first 3 weeks, and I took advantage of having nothing to do and split the majority of my days into two sessions. I think that helped a lot

also make sure your reps are actually explosive on day 1, otherwise you’re going too heavy which could be why you’re not ready for day 2

[quote]ashylarryku wrote:

[quote]Mikeee wrote:
Wait how are some of you guys hitting pr in your third week. The program doesn’t ask for pr only about 80% of 3rm[/quote]

I think Diluted meant to say when he retested his 3RM he hit a PR. Maybe not though, but you’re right Mikeee, you’re not supposed to be going for a PR during the regular programming.

BUT, this is what CT always preaches. Some days you don’t feel great, so you go and do your work needed for THAT DAY and be done with it. Other days you might feel like a million dollars, and you KNOW you are much stronger than you usually are. I’d say it’s probably alright to go for a PR on those days when you know you’re going to kill it.

I’m just starting week 4 tomorrow, and OP, I can’t say I feel what you’re feeling. Maybe you go to hard on the assistance work, or you just haven’t built enough work capacity for this frequency of training. Are you doing the neural charge sessions? I was on winter break from college this first 3 weeks, and I took advantage of having nothing to do and split the majority of my days into two sessions. I think that helped a lot[/quote]

x2 bro
Well for myself I never retested my 3RM, it was my 4th week in, this is my 5th week and literally I went into gym and I felt like I was on fire. I had drank a monster like 15min before, watched some Zhasni vids and it just felt right to try hit a PR and wham! Was easy! I really feel that HPM is the best program I have ever used and it can adapt to you so efficiently and you can always add in capacity training days, neural days and so forth when you like but in the same program. Fucking ace’s!

[quote]Diluted56 wrote:

x2 bro
Well for myself I never retested my 3RM, it was my 4th week in, this is my 5th week and literally I went into gym and I felt like I was on fire. I had drank a monster like 15min before, watched some Zhasni vids and it just felt right to try hit a PR and wham! Was easy! I really feel that HPM is the best program I have ever used and it can adapt to you so efficiently and you can always add in capacity training days, neural days and so forth when you like but in the same program. Fucking ace’s![/quote]

I’ve got a fridge packed full of the blue low-carb Monsters from Costco! I like your style haha

Yeah that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. YES, follow the program as written, but if you’re feeling really strong on a certain day, don’t let it go to waste. Likewise, if you’re not feeling all that great (lack of sleep, stress, etc.) then back off on some of the weight or drop a few sets. I had a day where I felt like crap, so I had to drop some weight on flat bench. BUT, I’m in week 4 now, and my OH Press today with 150 felt easier than my OH Press when I first started with 135. I love it!

Thanks for the suggestions, all.
I’ll change the layout as intended and see if this leads to better performance/recovery.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
See now you’re just turning this into a traditional upper/lower split.

Why not stick to the plan and take it easy on the first day? Just do the main lifts and stagger in some sets for traps, rhomboids and rear delts. Don’t even think about going to failure. Save all the assistance/isolation stuff for the second day. Done this way, you should if anything feel stronger the second day. [/quote]
wfifer, thanks for the comments. Unfortunately, your suggestions assume that I was doing all of those things, which I was not. For the past 4 weeks I have kept it very basic and did not implement every trick in the book for fear of burning out. I want to be able to progressively add more volume throughout this year. For example, last week was when I first introduced sled work in the afternoon (8 hours after my morning workout).

[quote]ashylarryku wrote:

[quote]Mikeee wrote:
Wait how are some of you guys hitting pr in your third week. The program doesn’t ask for pr only about 80% of 3rm[/quote]

I think Diluted meant to say when he retested his 3RM he hit a PR. Maybe not though, but you’re right Mikeee, you’re not supposed to be going for a PR during the regular programming.

BUT, this is what CT always preaches. Some days you don’t feel great, so you go and do your work needed for THAT DAY and be done with it. Other days you might feel like a million dollars, and you KNOW you are much stronger than you usually are. I’d say it’s probably alright to go for a PR on those days when you know you’re going to kill it.

I’m just starting week 4 tomorrow, and OP, I can’t say I feel what you’re feeling. Maybe you go to hard on the assistance work, or you just haven’t built enough work capacity for this frequency of training. Are you doing the neural charge sessions? I was on winter break from college this first 3 weeks, and I took advantage of having nothing to do and split the majority of my days into two sessions. I think that helped a lot[/quote]

Thanks for your input, ashylarryku.
As for my assistance work, I’ve just been doing them during the earlier sets, never to failure and do as much volume as my body tells me to. As for the neural days, I am doing two of these per week and feel great during those workouts.

[quote]illgixxer wrote:
also make sure your reps are actually explosive on day 1, otherwise you’re going too heavy which could be why you’re not ready for day 2[/quote]

illgixxer, thanks for your comments.
Like I mentioned in the original post, I do make sure to make every rep “rocket-style” like Thibs recommends. I’ve yet to go to failure or feel completely drained on my first HP day.

I usually feel more productive my second day. I’m not even taking any supps either.

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
I usually feel more productive my second day. I’m not even taking any supps either. [/quote]

Yeh same, it’s weird.

[quote]undecimber wrote:

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
I usually feel more productive my second day. I’m not even taking any supps either. [/quote]

Yeh same, it’s weird. [/quote]

Me three - my historically shitty shoulders have felt awesome on day 2. Considering shaving my head and learning French as a tribute.

Update…

So I just finished my first weighted training days like I intended to above:
Day 1 - Upper
Day 2 - Lower
Day 4 - Upper
Day 5 - Lower

I know this is only the first week, but it has been a great move. My day 4 upper body was one of the best training days in a long time and my day 5 (today) for lower body was almost as great. I even added 3-4 sets of circuits at the end of the ramping exercises and felt like I couldn’t worked out for another 3 hours.
We’ll see how this goes over the next few weeks.

Always feel better the second day here too. I move faster through the workout and the reps feel ‘cleaner’ in the way CT advocates. I feel that the first day is like a rehearsal - a kind of ‘greasing the groove’ for the second day’s performance. I’ve never felt a shitty workout yet. If you established realistic (ie. not ego driven) maxes before hand, then the workouts should feel challenging, but not tiring or debilitating.