T Nation

Feel Side Raises in Front Delts


#1

Okay so I've started doing machine side raises because it's a fixed motion/movement so I can't go wrong with it...

I swear I do it with appropriate weight and I've even gone as far as checking whether it really is shoulder abduction what I was doing, and it was!

But for some reason I felt it in my front delts, not my side delts..

Even tho I still find it very hard to tell if what I'm feeling is front delt or side delts... I don't know "where" I'm supposed to "feel the side delts"

But the movement was fixed and correct, I checked it in the mirror, elbows higher than wrists and hands, arms bent at 90 degree, my forearms pushed against and resting on the pads. (it's an L-lateral raise machine)

So should I just "train the movement" in that I shouldn't worry about where I feel as long as the movement looks like what it's supposed to look like, and just progress with weight?


#2

If you’re using the side delt machine, it’s highly unlikely your side delts aren’t performing the function they’re built for.

Also, if you’re having difficulties feeling the difference between side and front delts, and you’re feeling something from the machine, I would hazard a guess it’s your side delts that you’re feeling. I really don’t know how the front delts would contribute enough on the machine that you’d feel them.


#3

You could try visualizing flexing the lowest part of the side delt where it meets the brachialis or even flexing the rear delt when performing the movement.

Regardless I wouldnt worry too much -no matter what you do on that machine it is locked into working the side delt wether you feel it or not


#4

dude, you fixate way too much on your side delts


#5

[quote]Yogi wrote:
dude, you fixate way too much on your side delts[/quote]

I can’t imagine him squatting or performing any compound movements if raising his arm laterally is like quantum physics to him. I didn’t even see this, he has another thread with the same question in the bodybuilding forum. Just titled different.


#6

I’ve never used a lateral raise machine before so I wont comment on that but how can this be , " I don’t know “where” I’m supposed to “feel the side delts” " ?

Side deltoids are on the side of your upper arms. That’s obviously where you feel them.

If you are feeling front delts when doing dumbbell lateral raises then you need to lean forward a bit. If I was you I would actually start my shoulder workout by hitting rear delts first. This can be easily done just by bending over and doing dumbbell side raises or you can lay facing an incline bench at say 45`.
Fatiguing rear delts first works because you wont be using your front delts at all in this movement but you can slowly bring your side delts in by sitting / standing up straighter.

Even if your standing stay in a slightly leaning forward position. This should keep the front delts out of the movement and get you used to the mind muscle connection.

This is pretty basic stuff. A dumbbells force is gravity which can only go straight down. The position you have your shoulder in determines which deltoid will get hit the most.


#7

But my school of thought: “A certain muscle CAN’T take over another muscle’s function” is also correct, right? So if I abduct my shoulder, it must be the side delts working because the front delts only act as synergists in shoulder abduction…

So this means that as long as it’s ABDUCTION, it’s the side delts doing most of the work, right?

Thanks guys


#8

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
But my school of thought: “A certain muscle CAN’T take over another muscle’s function” is also correct, right? So if I abduct my shoulder, it must be the side delts working because the front delts only act as synergists in shoulder abduction…

So this means that as long as it’s ABDUCTION, it’s the side delts doing most of the work, right?

Thanks guys[/quote]

No.
I would like you to read what I wrote again.

Better yet grab something that has a bit of weight in it and actually try it.
Do a standing lateral raise. Now lean over and do it again. Now lean way back and do it again.
What did you just feel?
Was it only your side delts or was it all 3 depending on which position you were in?

If you can’t grasp this simple way of using gravity to hit the target muscle then you will never understand weight training.


#9

I understand the concept of gravity, BUT

Why doesn’t it work like I described it? That would make so much sense to me, but according to you, which I do believe, it doesn’t work like that…

So if a certain muscle’s function is to abduct the arm, why does gravity matter? And why does gravity matter a lot more, apparently, than the function being “exploited”?


#10

TC, I asked you this in one of your other threads and you ignored my post so I’m asking again.

Are you able to raise your hand to the side by only contracting your shoulder?


#11

Yes, I’m able to do that,


#12

Keep this up. You will remain small while the other kids just like you eating big and going to the gym and training with bigger guys are getting way ahead of you in progress. Then you will start accusing everyone more developed than you of being naturally big or on roids.

Keep doing what you’re doing. Read more articles. Watch more youtube videos. Go ahead.


#13

[quote]GetBigs wrote:
Yes, I’m able to do that, [/quote]

Do that while holding a weight in your hand. It doesn’t need to be very heavy. I use 10lbs.

You are now working your side delts.


#14

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
TC, I asked you this in one of your other threads and you ignored my post so I’m asking again.

Are you able to raise your hand to the side by only contracting your shoulder?[/quote]

How? How can something so basic and simple turn into weeks of analysing biomechanics, researching youtube videos from self proclaimed experts, finding multitudes of exercise variations, fucking philosophy and different schools of thought for the love of Dio…

when it all comes down to FLEXING A MUSCLE right at the side of the shoulder?


#15

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
TC, I asked you this in one of your other threads and you ignored my post so I’m asking again.

Are you able to raise your hand to the side by only contracting your shoulder?[/quote]

How? How can something so basic and simple turn into weeks of analysing biomechanics, researching youtube videos from self proclaimed experts, finding multitudes of exercise variations, fucking philosophy and different schools of thought for the love of Dio…

when it all comes down to FLEXING A MUSCLE right at the side of the shoulder?[/quote]

I honestly spent a while trying to figure out how he was getting his front delt in on the action in the first place, because it was so hard for me to do on my own. That’s when I realized that he was moving his hand rather than his shoulder.

Too many novice trainees fixate on form rather than technique. They only care about how the movement looks rather than what it does, and use all sorts of witchcraft to create an illusion of movement. It’s like a parrot mimicking speech versus a human actually knowing what the words mean.


#16

Great analogy.


#17

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
TC, I asked you this in one of your other threads and you ignored my post so I’m asking again.

Are you able to raise your hand to the side by only contracting your shoulder?[/quote]

How? How can something so basic and simple turn into weeks of analysing biomechanics, researching youtube videos from self proclaimed experts, finding multitudes of exercise variations, fucking philosophy and different schools of thought for the love of Dio…

when it all comes down to FLEXING A MUSCLE right at the side of the shoulder?[/quote]

I honestly spent a while trying to figure out how he was getting his front delt in on the action in the first place, because it was so hard for me to do on my own. That’s when I realized that he was moving his hand rather than his shoulder.

Too many novice trainees fixate on form rather than technique. They only care about how the movement looks rather than what it does, and use all sorts of witchcraft to create an illusion of movement. It’s like a parrot mimicking speech versus a human actually knowing what the words mean.[/quote]

Yes. Exactly. Branch Warren may be throwing weights around like he’s doing some funny dance, but the mmc is definitely there.


#18

[quote]Steez wrote:

Great analogy.

[/quote]

Someone needs to come up with a Turing Test for bodybuilding.


#19

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

Great analogy.

[/quote]

Someone needs to come up with a Turing Test for bodybuilding.[/quote]

To find out who’s human and who, like Th3Pwnisher, is just a lifting machine?


#20

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

Great analogy.

[/quote]

Someone needs to come up with a Turing Test for bodybuilding.[/quote]

To find out who’s human and who, like Th3Pwnisher, is just a lifting machine?[/quote]

To seperate those who conjugate with lions from sheep.