T Nation

Feedback on 5/3/1 Assistance Exercises

Hey guys just wondering if i could get some feedback on my assistance exercises for 5/3/1. I’m aiming to get the most carryover on all my lifts while building size.

SQUAT:
Jump Squats
Pull Ups
Romanian deadlift
Weighted Sit up

BENCH:
Chest Dip
DB Bench
DB Flys
DB Triceps Extension
Cable Tricep Extension

DEADLIFT:
Pull Ups
Good mornings
Hanging Leg Raises
Farmers Walk

MILITARY PRESS:
Standing DB press
Lateral Raises
Bent Over Rows
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

Much appreciated :slight_smile:

[quote]yammy53 wrote:
Hey guys just wondering if i could get some feedback on my assistance exercises for 5/3/1. I’m aiming to get the most carryover on all my lifts while building size.

SQUAT:
Jump Squats
Pull Ups
Romanian deadlift
Weighted Sit up

BENCH:
Chest Dip
DB Bench
DB Flys
DB Triceps Extension
Cable Tricep Extension

DEADLIFT:
Pull Ups
Good mornings
Hanging Leg Raises
Farmers Walk

MILITARY PRESS:
Standing DB press
Lateral Raises
Bent Over Rows
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

Much appreciated :)[/quote]

Is size your goal? If so, Jim made a template just for bodybuilding. Search “5/3/1 for bodybuilding” on google and it will come up.

Aside from that, how many sets for this stuff? It seems like a lot of assistance. In addition, a lot of the stuff you’re doing is rudundent. Your lower body days look fine (I would probably just do the chins on your upper body days, do a set between each set of bench and press), but you don’t need dips and 2 kinds of tricep extensions. That’s overkill.

Pick one (dips is the best choice) and give that your effort. You also don’t need db overhead press and lateral raises, after you already overhead pressed. Cut one of those out. And just pick one kind of curl.

[quote]yammy53 wrote:
I’m aiming to get the most carryover on all my lifts while building size.[/quote]
The best carryover exercises are a matter of finding what works for you, what you need to work on for the lifts depending on the issues you might be having.

What’s your current height, weight, and best maxes on the main lifts?

As for building size, like Other-Chris said, knowing the sets and reps of what you’re currently doing would give us some more useful info. And Wendler has definitely written about a 5/3/1 for bodybuilding template. It’s basically shoulders/bis-back-chest/tris-legs/abs.

Worst case scenario, follow the Boring But Big template.

One key principle to remember about the 5/3/1 training method is efficiency and training economy - making the best and most efficient choices in assistance exercises to make sure they assist you in reaching your goals, rather than become the bigger focus of your workouts.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

Is size your goal? If so, Jim made a template just for bodybuilding. Search “5/3/1 for bodybuilding” on google and it will come up.

Aside from that, how many sets for this stuff? It seems like a lot of assistance. In addition, a lot of the stuff you’re doing is rudundent. Your lower body days look fine (I would probably just do the chins on your upper body days, do a set between each set of bench and press), but you don’t need dips and 2 kinds of tricep extensions. That’s overkill.

Pick one (dips is the best choice) and give that your effort. You also don’t need db overhead press and lateral raises, after you already overhead pressed. Cut one of those out. And just pick one kind of curl.[/quote]

I used the 5/3/1 bodybuilding as a basic template for some of my assistance exercises as size is my goal.

For nearly all of my assistance exercises I use a 4X10 with 1 min rest as more volume = more size
And currently cant do many pull ups so am doing negatives to get stronger on that

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

What’s your current height, weight, and best maxes on the main lifts?

[/quote]

Height : 5ft 8in
Weight: 72KG

Squat: 100KG
Bench: 60KG
Deadlift: 102KG X 7 reps

cheers for the links btw

[quote]yammy53 wrote:
Hey guys just wondering if i could get some feedback on my assistance exercises for 5/3/1. I’m aiming to get the most carryover on all my lifts while building size.

SQUAT:
Jump Squats
Pull Ups
Romanian deadlift
Weighted Sit up

BENCH:
Chest Dip
DB Bench
DB Flys
DB Triceps Extension
Cable Tricep Extension

DEADLIFT:
Pull Ups
Good mornings
Hanging Leg Raises
Farmers Walk

MILITARY PRESS:
Standing DB press
Lateral Raises
Bent Over Rows
BB Curls
Preacher Curls

Much appreciated :)[/quote]

Try to limit each workout to as few exercises as possible, that will get the job done. If I were you Id get rid of DB Flys, DB Triceps Extension, Cable Tricep Extension, and Preacher Curls. The jump squats won’t do anything for size and not much for strength. You can keep them if you have some sort of athletic goal though. Jim has said the best program for size is BBB + a gallon of milk a day and I can’t argue with him there.

[quote]Brian14 wrote:

Try to limit each workout to as few exercises as possible, that will get the job done. If I were you Id get rid of DB Flys, DB Triceps Extension, Cable Tricep Extension, and Preacher Curls. The jump squats won’t do anything for size and not much for strength. You can keep them if you have some sort of athletic goal though. Jim has said the best program for size is BBB + a gallon of milk a day and I can’t argue with him there.
[/quote]

my idea behind jump squats was more power = more strength:

[quote]yammy53 wrote:
I used the 5/3/1 bodybuilding as a basic template for some of my assistance exercises as size is my goal.[/quote]
Double-checking your program compared to what Wendler wrote in that Blood and Chalk article, you did and you didn’t. I’m still trying to figure out why there are pull-ups on squat day. You could also use a few more leg exercises in general.

More isn’t always better, better is better. This is especially true with 5/3/1 training.

If you can do a few full range reps, I’d stick with doing those between all chest and shoulder press sets, even if it’s 1-3 reps per set. Negatives can be pretty draining.

With your current level of development, more strength = more strength. You could add a few jumps before lifting/right after your general warm-up on squat day, but I wouldn’t over-focus on them because you still have plenty of strength to gain from plain ol’ lifting.

as one person new to 5/3/1 to another–if you haven’t done a full week yet, you might change your mind on assistance. Doing that many sets and reps of each assistance lift is BRUTAL if you’re not used to it.

[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
as one person new to 5/3/1 to another–if you haven’t done a full week yet, you might change your mind on assistance. Doing that many sets and reps of each assistance lift is BRUTAL if you’re not used to it.
[/quote]

i’ve been on this program for a whole month. I know i making progress with my bench and military press, though im still figuring out the best exercises for maximal carryover throughout

I thought I’d add in more pull ups here and there so I could get better at them faster as there currently they’re probly one of my biggest weaknesses

[quote]
More isn’t always better, better is better. This is especially true with 5/3/1 training. [/quote]
Could you explain the more isnt always better?

[quote]
With your current level of development, more strength = more strength. You could add a few jumps before lifting/right after your general warm-up on squat day, but I wouldn’t over-focus on them because you still have plenty of strength to gain from plain ol’ lifting.[/quote]

My idea was to do squat jumps instead of the leg press machine as i wasn’t certain there was much carryover with the leg press. What if i was to include front squats as an assistance exercise?

I sub weighted chins for one of your curl variations. But MOST important farmers walks, any dumbell any distance.

[quote]yammy53 wrote:

I thought I’d add in more pull ups here and there so I could get better at them faster as there currently they’re probly one of my biggest weaknesses[/quote]
You’ll get plenty of pull-up work just by doing them between all presses. Doing pull-ups in the middle of a leg day isn’t necessary and doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

[quote]

Could you explain the more isnt always better?[/quote]
You’ve chosen to follow 5/3/1, so I’ll let Wendler explain, actually. From page 32 in the 5/3/1 manual:

“The biggest problem I’ve seen with this is people doing way too much. They do too many sets, or too many exercises. These lifts should compliment the training, not detract from it. People choose exercises for every body part, train them excessively, then wonder why they’re overtrained and not making any progress. When you’re choosing your assistance exercises, do yourself a favor and justify why you’re doing them. Don’t bullshit yourself. You must have a very strong reason for doing an exercise. If you don’t, scrap it and move on. Sometimes, instead of what you do in the weight room, it’s what you don’t do that will lead to success.”

Plenty of powerlifters use the leg press as an assistance exercise. Front squats would also be a good choice. Again, at your current strength and development level, jump squats won’t provide nearly the same size or strength stimulus as those two.

much appreciated for the feedback everyone (esp Chris Colucci), however i think im guna include front squat and weighted jump squats and see how much progress ill make on my squat

[quote]yammy53 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

What’s your current height, weight, and best maxes on the main lifts?

[/quote]

Height : 5ft 8in
Weight: 72KG

Squat: 100KG
Bench: 60KG
Deadlift: 102KG X 7 reps

cheers for the links btw
[/quote]

I think at your level, you really need to focus on the basics and building up a good base. How much weight are you using with your jump squats? not enough to really make a difference I bet.

High frequency and volume on the main lifts - lots of practice - will enforce good form and condition your body to recover and progress with these big movements.

How many reps are you hitting on the main sets? about 10 for 85%, 7 for 90% and 5 for 95%? Thats the rough level that will keep the progress going for a while.

Two great options for you right know would be either the Boring But Big template, or:
85% session: Main movement + 4x8 @ 85%
90% session: Main movement + 5x5 @ 90%
95% session: Main movement + 10x3 @ 95%

for example:
Squat 90% - 80kg, set new rep pr
squat 80kg 5x5
Pullups between sets (always time for more back work)
ab wheel and Good Mornings

Military Press 85% - 40kg, set new rep pr
OHP 40kg 4x8
DB rows 5x10
curls n shit

and now i really want to go train and fuck up my foot even more

[quote]caveman101 wrote:
and now i really want to go train and fuck up my foot even more[/quote]

It’s what Dave Tate would do.

I have used 5/3/1 program since October 2011. I am using the boring but big template and It has worked well for me.

[quote]caveman101 wrote:

I think at your level, you really need to focus on the basics and building up a good base. How much weight are you using with your jump squats? not enough to really make a difference I bet.
[/quote]

using sandbags at roughly 25kg will be switching to dumbells and aim to be working to about roughly the same.

ive done alot of training templates like SL5X5 and smolov so im certain ive developed enough on my form for now . I’ve hit a plateau on my squat and nothing else is working atm so i know its time to try something new for that. As for all my other lifts it appears im getting stronger