Feedback From Meat

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Coach Meat-

In several threads, you mentioned integrating speed work for deadlifts (a la your band-deadlift vids).

How would you fit those lifts into a 5-3-1 program that a lot of us seem to be using (or in my case, bastardizing)? Say on 3x3 (or, whatever night) night after getting those minimum sets, would you do speed work? What % of max?[/quote]

i would use it in place of an accessory movement. use about 50% of your max and go with straight weight. don’t worry about the bands… yet. the weight should be light, form should be perfect and the weight should fly to lockout. rest for about 60 seconds between set and do 6-8sets of 3 reps.

[quote]marlboroman wrote:
heres one for ya…

my last meet I missed an un-equipped 215 BP attempt about 10 inches off the chest . so my plan for the next couple ME bench cycles is 2-board and 3-board press , working to 5RM/3RM/2RM over 3 weeks of each . I also picked up some bands from EFS (micro and monster minis), with plans on incorporating speed work in place of RE on my second bench day.

here’s the reasoning…

a) I moved the missed rep off my chest easy enough , so the 2 and 3 board ME work should build strength in the upper half of the stroke.

b)speed work should help with training to press faster throughout the entire stroke , enabling me to blow past that 10" point.

logical ?

(stats if it matters…5’6" / 180 lbs /45 y.o./ squat & DL maxes are about 360/training about 2.5 years)[/quote]

i agree with the speed work but if you are missing 10 inches off the chest, i would go with something higher. at that height the problem is either weak triceps, inefficient bar path and/or other form issues. without seeing you bench, i’m guessing it’s week triceps. although if you aren’t arcing the weight back over your shoulders to lockout, it could be that as well.

if it’s triceps, I would incorporate paused, flat back, legs straight floor press, higher board presses- 4board, pin lockouts, high pin presses, bar holds, rolling dumbell extensions, elbow’s out, JM presses, heavy close grip presses keeping a tight tuck, neutral grip dumbell presses, and weighted dips. i would rotate through these. obviously some are Main movements and others are accessory work.

if you have a vid of a max attempt, send it to me. i could help you more after seeing that.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
JoeGood wrote:
I have a question.

When I squat with any challenging weigh I “shift” my hips ever so slightly to the right as I decend. Long ago I had a bulging disk, though I have no pain and only a slight bit of lumbar stiffness.

I’m wondering if this shift is caused by a lack of hip flexibility or perhaps a strength imbalance on one side?

Thanks, great idea.

that’s a tough one. after injuries the body does tend to favor one side to protect the injured area and often times a new motor pattern will show up. i would definitely get it checked out. start with your physician and then get a referral from there.
[/quote]

Sorry I should have mentioned that according to the docs I am injury free. I’m begining to think it is a mental issue with trusting that I can lift the weight.

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
JoeGood wrote:
I have a question.

When I squat with any challenging weigh I “shift” my hips ever so slightly to the right as I decend. Long ago I had a bulging disk, though I have no pain and only a slight bit of lumbar stiffness.

I’m wondering if this shift is caused by a lack of hip flexibility or perhaps a strength imbalance on one side?

Thanks, great idea.

that’s a tough one. after injuries the body does tend to favor one side to protect the injured area and often times a new motor pattern will show up. i would definitely get it checked out. start with your physician and then get a referral from there.

Sorry I should have mentioned that according to the docs I am injury free. I’m begining to think it is a mental issue with trusting that I can lift the weight.

[/quote]

that could definitely be the issue. i tore my adductor on the right side really badly. for almost a year i would favor that side when i pulled or squatted.

i would work on building confidence again. maybe doing different variations of the squat. things like squatting to pins, off of pins, front squats, zerchers. just change it up and i’m confident you will work this kink out.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
marlboroman wrote:
heres one for ya…

my last meet I missed an un-equipped 215 BP attempt about 10 inches off the chest . so my plan for the next couple ME bench cycles is 2-board and 3-board press , working to 5RM/3RM/2RM over 3 weeks of each . I also picked up some bands from EFS (micro and monster minis), with plans on incorporating speed work in place of RE on my second bench day.

here’s the reasoning…

a) I moved the missed rep off my chest easy enough , so the 2 and 3 board ME work should build strength in the upper half of the stroke.

b)speed work should help with training to press faster throughout the entire stroke , enabling me to blow past that 10" point.

logical ?

(stats if it matters…5’6" / 180 lbs /45 y.o./ squat & DL maxes are about 360/training about 2.5 years)

i agree with the speed work but if you are missing 10 inches off the chest, i would go with something higher. at that height the problem is either weak triceps, inefficient bar path and/or other form issues. without seeing you bench, i’m guessing it’s week triceps. although if you aren’t arcing the weight back over your shoulders to lockout, it could be that as well.

if it’s triceps, I would incorporate paused, flat back, legs straight floor press, higher board presses- 4board, pin lockouts, high pin presses, bar holds, rolling dumbell extensions, elbow’s out, JM presses, heavy close grip presses keeping a tight tuck, neutral grip dumbell presses, and weighted dips. i would rotate through these. obviously some are Main movements and others are accessory work.

if you have a vid of a max attempt, send it to me. i could help you more after seeing that.

[/quote]

alrighty …I’ll scrap the 2 & 3 board in favor of 4 brd and high-pin presses (fantastic idea , the pin presses)as ME work;and I’ll scrap the high rep (5x10) 4-brd sets that I had planned as accessory tricep work. heavy CG presses were already in the plan on DE day , as well as nuetral grip DB’s. dips totally fuck with my elbows , so I usually avoid them like the plague;probably best to steer clear for now. I need to look into a few of the other lifts .

as far as bar-path goes , the rep didnt feel as though it strayed ; and my buddy didnt say anything about it , so I’m thinking week triceps was the culprit , as you suggested.

thanks for the help

great thread

[quote]marlboroman wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
marlboroman wrote:
heres one for ya…

my last meet I missed an un-equipped 215 BP attempt about 10 inches off the chest . so my plan for the next couple ME bench cycles is 2-board and 3-board press , working to 5RM/3RM/2RM over 3 weeks of each . I also picked up some bands from EFS (micro and monster minis), with plans on incorporating speed work in place of RE on my second bench day.

here’s the reasoning…

a) I moved the missed rep off my chest easy enough , so the 2 and 3 board ME work should build strength in the upper half of the stroke.

b)speed work should help with training to press faster throughout the entire stroke , enabling me to blow past that 10" point.

logical ?

(stats if it matters…5’6" / 180 lbs /45 y.o./ squat & DL maxes are about 360/training about 2.5 years)

i agree with the speed work but if you are missing 10 inches off the chest, i would go with something higher. at that height the problem is either weak triceps, inefficient bar path and/or other form issues. without seeing you bench, i’m guessing it’s week triceps. although if you aren’t arcing the weight back over your shoulders to lockout, it could be that as well.

if it’s triceps, I would incorporate paused, flat back, legs straight floor press, higher board presses- 4board, pin lockouts, high pin presses, bar holds, rolling dumbell extensions, elbow’s out, JM presses, heavy close grip presses keeping a tight tuck, neutral grip dumbell presses, and weighted dips. i would rotate through these. obviously some are Main movements and others are accessory work.

if you have a vid of a max attempt, send it to me. i could help you more after seeing that.

alrighty …I’ll scrap the 2 & 3 board in favor of 4 brd and high-pin presses (fantastic idea , the pin presses)as ME work;and I’ll scrap the high rep (5x10) 4-brd sets that I had planned as accessory tricep work. heavy CG presses were already in the plan on DE day , as well as nuetral grip DB’s. dips totally fuck with my elbows , so I usually avoid them like the plague;probably best to steer clear for now. I need to look into a few of the other lifts .

as far as bar-path goes , the rep didnt feel as though it strayed ; and my buddy didnt say anything about it , so I’m thinking week triceps was the culprit , as you suggested.

thanks for the help

great thread

[/quote]

let me know how it goes. if you get a chance to vid a max attempt, i would love to see it.

Hi, I’ve been lurking for about a month and I decided to make the jump to posting. I’m a high school powerlifter and I lift in the 165 classe. I’m 5’9". I was 3rd this year at state and I think I have a legitimate shot to win it as a senior. But I was wondering what weight class you think I would fit in best later on in my life.

I know I can’t make 165 forever, and this is probably going to be the last year, with a pretty tough cut. Also, how heavy do you think I should get for this year? I was thinking of getting up to 180 which works well for football, and then dropping weight over the winter for the state meet as well as some all-class meets. I plan on doing three meets in which I compete as a 165er, and a few USAPL meets in the summer where I compete as a 181.

Sorry, I know it’s a really long post, but I get excited.

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:
Hi, I’ve been lurking for about a month and I decided to make the jump to posting. I’m a high school powerlifter and I lift in the 165 classe. I’m 5’9". I was 3rd this year at state and I think I have a legitimate shot to win it as a senior. But I was wondering what weight class you think I would fit in best later on in my life.

I know I can’t make 165 forever, and this is probably going to be the last year, with a pretty tough cut. Also, how heavy do you think I should get for this year? I was thinking of getting up to 180 which works well for football, and then dropping weight over the winter for the state meet as well as some all-class meets. I plan on doing three meets in which I compete as a 165er, and a few USAPL meets in the summer where I compete as a 181.

Sorry, I know it’s a really long post, but I get excited.[/quote]

it’s impossible for me to tell you what weight class would be best for you. i know when i was a wrestler that i didn’t feel comfortable cutting more than 10 pounds for a match. i started out in the 160’s and ended up competing in the 200’s by the time i finished in college. i liked putting on muscle mass and that can’t happen if i stayed at the same weight. I guess you have to balance your desire to be the best and your desire to be heavier. whichever weight class allows you to still be competitive but also allows some wiggle room for weight gain is probably the best choice.

Hi Meat,
I’d love to join the party…

Here are a few videos of me squatting tonight:
165x5 - warm ups, shouldn’t have been in the belt, but I forgot to change the bar weight after a set

185x5

225x5 - I’m in suit bottoms because I’ve been having hip issues recently

I train with Ouro and have read everything you’ve told her. I really thought my elbows were more under the bar than they are. Anything else you see?

Thanks :slight_smile:
Court

I took your advice and tried DL sets at light weight to the knees. Toes were lifted throughout and I focused on staying back on my heels. I posted two videos on my log.

I’ve got to say my butt and hamstrings were killing me.

[quote]Court wrote:
Hi Meat,
I’d love to join the party…

Here are a few videos of me squatting tonight:
165x5 - warm ups, shouldn’t have been in the belt, but I forgot to change the bar weight after a set

185x5

225x5 - I’m in suit bottoms because I’ve been having hip issues recently

I train with Ouro and have read everything you’ve told her. I really thought my elbows were more under the bar than they are. Anything else you see?

Thanks :slight_smile:
Court[/quote]

first off, i love the pink powerlifting belt and pink chucks.

your squat form isn’t bad at all, but if i was to nit pick there are a couple things to improve on.

-obviously keep working on getting those elbows down and forcing them forward throughout the lift.

-go back and watch your vids again. watch how your knees will roll over your toes at the bottom of your lift. this happens because you aren’t forcing your knees out hard enough. this is your bodies way of trying to keep control over the weight. as you decend the weight is over your hips and then as the elbows drift a bit, it gets in front of you and since you aren’t forcing out your knees the quads jump in to keep you from falling forward.

-don’t drop into the hole so fast. you will have much more power out of the hole if you really force the knees out hard on the way down and concentrate on pushing your neck into the bar- a good way to engrain this is to wear a baseball cap backwards. force your neck into the bar and make the bill touch your traps. the bill shouldn’t come off your traps.

i know that you get a rebound out of going down faster but it sacrifices tightness and the form suffers.

so…

elbows, knees, speed on decent, and neck into the bar.

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
I took your advice and tried DL sets at light weight to the knees. Toes were lifted throughout and I focused on staying back on my heels. I posted two videos on my log.

I’ve got to say my butt and hamstrings were killing me.[/quote]

i really like how you got those hips and quads into the second video. if you can engrain that, overtime you will be pulling some huge numbers.

did you see how you initiated the lift with the legs and not the back? awesome job. the first vid looked more like a stiff legged sumo.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Court wrote:
Hi Meat,
I’d love to join the party…

Here are a few videos of me squatting tonight:
165x5 - warm ups, shouldn’t have been in the belt, but I forgot to change the bar weight after a set

185x5

225x5 - I’m in suit bottoms because I’ve been having hip issues recently

I train with Ouro and have read everything you’ve told her. I really thought my elbows were more under the bar than they are. Anything else you see?

Thanks :slight_smile:
Court

first off, i love the pink powerlifting belt and pink chucks.

your squat form isn’t bad at all, but if i was to nit pick there are a couple things to improve on.

-obviously keep working on getting those elbows down and forcing them forward throughout the lift.

-go back and watch your vids again. watch how your knees will roll over your toes at the bottom of your lift. this happens because you aren’t forcing your knees out hard enough. this is your bodies way of trying to keep control over the weight. as you decend the weight is over your hips and then as the elbows drift a bit, it gets in front of you and since you aren’t forcing out your knees the quads jump in to keep you from falling forward.

-don’t drop into the hole so fast. you will have much more power out of the hole if you really force the knees out hard on the way down and concentrate on pushing your neck into the bar- a good way to engrain this is to wear a baseball cap backwards. force your neck into the bar and make the bill touch your traps. the bill shouldn’t come off your traps.

i know that you get a rebound out of going down faster but it sacrifices tightness and the form suffers.

so…

elbows, knees, speed on decent, and neck into the bar.

[/quote]

I was trying to figure out why I was rocking forward at the bottom yesterday. I thought it was because I was favoring my hip which was a little tender, but you’re right - I wasn’t forcing my knees out, which is something I usually focus on remembering in warm ups so I remember the whole way through.

I will work on the neck, elbows and going down a little more controlled.

This is from a few weeks ago: 245 Squat - YouTube and I think it’s more like my ‘usual’ form. It was before I started thinking elbows and was thinking knees out :slight_smile:

PS. If you knew me you’d understand how fitting the pink chucks and belt are. You can see in my avatar I even wear a pink shirt when I compete :smiley:

[quote]Court wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
Court wrote:
Hi Meat,
I’d love to join the party…

Here are a few videos of me squatting tonight:
165x5 - warm ups, shouldn’t have been in the belt, but I forgot to change the bar weight after a set

185x5

225x5 - I’m in suit bottoms because I’ve been having hip issues recently

I train with Ouro and have read everything you’ve told her. I really thought my elbows were more under the bar than they are. Anything else you see?

Thanks :slight_smile:
Court

first off, i love the pink powerlifting belt and pink chucks.

your squat form isn’t bad at all, but if i was to nit pick there are a couple things to improve on.

-obviously keep working on getting those elbows down and forcing them forward throughout the lift.

-go back and watch your vids again. watch how your knees will roll over your toes at the bottom of your lift. this happens because you aren’t forcing your knees out hard enough. this is your bodies way of trying to keep control over the weight. as you decend the weight is over your hips and then as the elbows drift a bit, it gets in front of you and since you aren’t forcing out your knees the quads jump in to keep you from falling forward.

-don’t drop into the hole so fast. you will have much more power out of the hole if you really force the knees out hard on the way down and concentrate on pushing your neck into the bar- a good way to engrain this is to wear a baseball cap backwards. force your neck into the bar and make the bill touch your traps. the bill shouldn’t come off your traps.

i know that you get a rebound out of going down faster but it sacrifices tightness and the form suffers.

so…

elbows, knees, speed on decent, and neck into the bar.

I was trying to figure out why I was rocking forward at the bottom yesterday. I thought it was because I was favoring my hip which was a little tender, but you’re right - I wasn’t forcing my knees out, which is something I usually focus on remembering in warm ups so I remember the whole way through.

I will work on the neck, elbows and going down a little more controlled.

This is from a few weeks ago: 245 Squat - YouTube and I think it’s more like my ‘usual’ form. It was before I started thinking elbows and was thinking knees out :slight_smile:

PS. If you knew me you’d understand how fitting the pink chucks and belt are. You can see in my avatar I even wear a pink shirt when I compete :D[/quote]

you are definitely on the right track now. if you find that you are having a particular problem with one of the cues, break the movement down to concentrate on that one thing.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
I took your advice and tried DL sets at light weight to the knees. Toes were lifted throughout and I focused on staying back on my heels. I posted two videos on my log.

I’ve got to say my butt and hamstrings were killing me.

i really like how you got those hips and quads into the second video. if you can engrain that, overtime you will be pulling some huge numbers.

did you see how you initiated the lift with the legs and not the back? awesome job. the first vid looked more like a stiff legged sumo.

[/quote]

Thanks. I think I have a lot of work to do. I’ve always pulled more with my back. I’ve pulled conventional up until recently and had a higher set up to get my legs from drifting over the bar. Pulling conventional, I couldn’t pull in a straight line unless I started higher up. Obviously, that isn’t an issue with sumo.

I’ll be doing heavier sets again on Sunday so I’ll see how I make out and try and tape it.

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
I took your advice and tried DL sets at light weight to the knees. Toes were lifted throughout and I focused on staying back on my heels. I posted two videos on my log.

I’ve got to say my butt and hamstrings were killing me.

i really like how you got those hips and quads into the second video. if you can engrain that, overtime you will be pulling some huge numbers.

did you see how you initiated the lift with the legs and not the back? awesome job. the first vid looked more like a stiff legged sumo.

Thanks. I think I have a lot of work to do. I’ve always pulled more with my back. I’ve pulled conventional up until recently and had a higher set up to get my legs from drifting over the bar. Pulling conventional, I couldn’t pull in a straight line unless I started higher up. Obviously, that isn’t an issue with sumo.

I’ll be doing heavier sets again on Sunday so I’ll see how I make out and try and tape it.[/quote]

most people don’t take the time to learn proper technique and then they wonder why they never get any stronger. i’m glad to see that you are willing to put the work in. also in the long run you won’t have those nagging injuries caused by bad technique.

I have a qustion regarding deadlifting. I pull conventional and I have a rotten habit of stiff legging my highest weights up. Now I know this is because my hips are coming up to fast but I can’t seem to stop it.

For this reason I have considered switching to sumo but I’ve been told pulling sumo is really hard on the groin and I have had inguinal hernia Sx in the last 7 months.

So do you think pulling Sumo would help keep me from stifflegging my DL’s?

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
I have a qustion regarding deadlifting. I pull conventional and I have a rotten habit of stiff legging my highest weights up. Now I know this is because my hips are coming up to fast but I can’t seem to stop it.

For this reason I have considered switching to sumo but I’ve been told pulling sumo is really hard on the groin and I have had inguinal hernia Sx in the last 7 months.

So do you think pulling Sumo would help keep me from stifflegging my DL’s?[/quote]

if your hip are rising first that puts the weight in front of you and leads to locking the legs out too soon. then the lift becomes a stiff legged dead. it would be nice to see a vid of a max attempt.

just guessing i would say that you need to pull from your heels more. lift your toes when you pull and this will put you back on your heels. also, pull the weight back into your shins as you initiate the lift. most people just pull up on the bar.

lastly, you probably aren’t getting your hips through to the bar either fast enough or not at all. as the weight reaches your knees you have to push your hips into the bar to complete the lift. if you don’t do this the only other option is to lean back with it.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
I took your advice and tried DL sets at light weight to the knees. Toes were lifted throughout and I focused on staying back on my heels. I posted two videos on my log.

I’ve got to say my butt and hamstrings were killing me.

i really like how you got those hips and quads into the second video. if you can engrain that, overtime you will be pulling some huge numbers.

did you see how you initiated the lift with the legs and not the back? awesome job. the first vid looked more like a stiff legged sumo.

Thanks. I think I have a lot of work to do. I’ve always pulled more with my back. I’ve pulled conventional up until recently and had a higher set up to get my legs from drifting over the bar. Pulling conventional, I couldn’t pull in a straight line unless I started higher up. Obviously, that isn’t an issue with sumo.

I’ll be doing heavier sets again on Sunday so I’ll see how I make out and try and tape it.

most people don’t take the time to learn proper technique and then they wonder why they never get any stronger. i’m glad to see that you are willing to put the work in. also in the long run you won’t have those nagging injuries caused by bad technique.

[/quote]

I need to take the time to learn the best technique I can get. I’m taking this as far as I can go. I have another meet in July and the end of September I’ll be competing in the worlds (masters) in the Czech Republic. The meet I just did was our nationals where I qualified. Based on what I can currently lift, I should be the middle of the pack judging by totals from the last 4-5 years. If I spend time on my technique, it will be that much better.

Of course, judging by the stress I gave myself just competing nationals, I need mental work and a quaalude as much as anything :slight_smile:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
JoeGood wrote:
I have a qustion regarding deadlifting. I pull conventional and I have a rotten habit of stiff legging my highest weights up. Now I know this is because my hips are coming up to fast but I can’t seem to stop it.

For this reason I have considered switching to sumo but I’ve been told pulling sumo is really hard on the groin and I have had inguinal hernia Sx in the last 7 months.

So do you think pulling Sumo would help keep me from stifflegging my DL’s?

if your hip are rising first that puts the weight in front of you and leads to locking the legs out too soon. then the lift becomes a stiff legged dead. it would be nice to see a vid of a max attempt.

just guessing i would say that you need to pull from your heels more. lift your toes when you pull and this will put you back on your heels. also, pull the weight back into your shins as you initiate the lift. most people just pull up on the bar.

lastly, you probably aren’t getting your hips through to the bar either fast enough or not at all. as the weight reaches your knees you have to push your hips into the bar to complete the lift. if you don’t do this the only other option is to lean back with it.

[/quote]

Can that be a hamstring/glute strength issue?