Probably a little too early for that kind of talk. Fedor is extremely fast and Brock simply doesn’t have the ring or octagon experience to deal with that. Unless he stops or even beats Nog, not much point in even saying “what if”. He certainly has the tools but both Fedor and Nog are going to hit with shit so fast. He is going to have to react instantly. Not sure he’s there yet.
I found their rankings interesting. I would say they are pretty accurate through Couture, for now. I would put Barnett ahead of Arlovski but that’s just me.
After that, I would put Overeem and Mir ahead of Silvia.
Overeem/Silvia would be an interesting match. About the only Silvia match-up I can think of that would be of any interest to me. Maybe Congo or Dos Santos, but that’s not going to happen.
I don’t know if anybody is too fast for Lesnar. I do agree that I don’t believe that he is ready to fight Fedor in terms of expieriance (2 more wins against TOP competition NOG included)
No one however in the division is as athletic or strong as Brock. If he can keep improving his stand up and submission defense He might be unbeatable for a long while.
I also don’t agree that Fedor is the best lb for lb fighter in the world anymore. He is currently fighting castoffs from the UFC and while he is a top 5 fighter hes not the best. Arlovski however is an interesting fighter, If he dominates him I will be impressed, if he has a tough time it will further my belief that he’s not the man he was
[quote]woohitter wrote:
I don’t know if anybody is too fast for Lesnar. I do agree that I don’t believe that he is ready to fight Fedor in terms of expieriance (2 more wins against TOP competition NOG included)
No one however in the division is as athletic or strong as Brock. If he can keep improving his stand up and submission defense He might be unbeatable for a long while.[/quote]
Brock is certainly fast. That’s not the issue. His biggest shortfall right now is just experience. He is not going to have the instincts or reaction time to deal with someone that is also very quick and has 20 more fights and 10 more years under their belt. He will narrow this gap with every fight.
Nog is very dangerous because of the speed and ease he can slap a sub on. If the fight ends up on the ground, Brock is in danger. Fedor posses unbelievalby fast hands and his arm bars are lightning quick. The trick for Brock is to avoid possitions that put him in danger. He has the tools to do this, but in a long fight the chances of getting caught by someone like Nog or Fedor are very good.
I do beleive that Brock beats the winner of Mir/Nog but I am probably a bit biased. Being a wrestling fan and from MN. Until he does this and then defends again Gonzaga, I just can’t even picture how a fight with Fedor would go. We haven’t seen enough of him yet and he hasn’t had enough time in the octagon.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
woohitter wrote:
I don’t know if anybody is too fast for Lesnar. I do agree that I don’t believe that he is ready to fight Fedor in terms of expieriance (2 more wins against TOP competition NOG included)
No one however in the division is as athletic or strong as Brock. If he can keep improving his stand up and submission defense He might be unbeatable for a long while.
Brock is certainly fast. That’s not the issue. His biggest shortfall right now is just experience. He is not going to have the instincts or reaction time to deal with someone that is also very quick and has 20 more fights and 10 more years under their belt. He will narrow this gap with every fight.
Nog is very dangerous because of the speed and ease he can slap a sub on. If the fight ends up on the ground, Brock is in danger. Fedor posses unbelievalby fast hands and his arm bars are lightning quick. The trick for Brock is to avoid possitions that put him in danger. He has the tools to do this, but in a long fight the chances of getting caught by someone like Nog or Fedor are very good.
I do beleive that Brock beats the winner of Mir/Nog but I am probably a bit biased. Being a wrestling fan and from MN. Until he does this and then defends again Gonzaga, I just can’t even picture how a fight with Fedor would go. We haven’t seen enough of him yet and he hasn’t had enough time in the octagon.[/quote]
Unfortunately for Lesnar both Fedor and Nog excel in stand up and both are great from their back. I think Fedor can definitely take Lesnar from the clinch, when that happens you will see a bloody mess when Fedor lands on top. If Lesnar gets the TD I can definitely see an armbar. I’d like to see Nog win from his guard, maybe a heel hook or another kneebar.
I feel like Brock still isnt getting much respect for his game.
Yes he is very raw still in his sub defense. Yet, his standup has been very good in all his fights, where every one of his opponents were dropped by a right, and in each fight he also was able to take the opponent down.
Couture even took Brock down and he seemed to escape from it rather simply. His stamina also seems to be elite level as he was fresh throughout the Herring fight and didn’t let the excitement wreck him in the Couture fight.
Brock is a professional, and the Heavy weight champion right now, and if we all can see his lack of sub defense then Im sure his trainers and himself can figure that it is what he must work on in 75% of his training. His standup has the benefit that at any time he gets into trouble, he can take his opponent down, and that is where most of his training will be tkaing place.
If he beats NOG and possibly defends against a guy like Congo who can match his size, I think the finished product of those fights will be more than ready for a fighter such as fedor.
[quote]snipeout wrote:
dhickey wrote:
woohitter wrote:
I don’t know if anybody is too fast for Lesnar. I do agree that I don’t believe that he is ready to fight Fedor in terms of expieriance (2 more wins against TOP competition NOG included)
No one however in the division is as athletic or strong as Brock. If he can keep improving his stand up and submission defense He might be unbeatable for a long while.
Brock is certainly fast. That’s not the issue. His biggest shortfall right now is just experience. He is not going to have the instincts or reaction time to deal with someone that is also very quick and has 20 more fights and 10 more years under their belt. He will narrow this gap with every fight.
Nog is very dangerous because of the speed and ease he can slap a sub on. If the fight ends up on the ground, Brock is in danger. Fedor posses unbelievalby fast hands and his arm bars are lightning quick. The trick for Brock is to avoid possitions that put him in danger. He has the tools to do this, but in a long fight the chances of getting caught by someone like Nog or Fedor are very good.
I do beleive that Brock beats the winner of Mir/Nog but I am probably a bit biased. Being a wrestling fan and from MN. Until he does this and then defends again Gonzaga, I just can’t even picture how a fight with Fedor would go. We haven’t seen enough of him yet and he hasn’t had enough time in the octagon.
Unfortunately for Lesnar both Fedor and Nog excel in stand up and both are great from their back. I think Fedor can definitely take Lesnar from the clinch, when that happens you will see a bloody mess when Fedor lands on top. If Lesnar gets the TD I can definitely see an armbar. I’d like to see Nog win from his guard, maybe a heel hook or another kneebar.[/quote]
I’ll play devils advocate and say that neither one are knockout artists, so standing with Brock may be a gamble. Fedor would definately fair better here than Nog. Fedor has a knack for not getting hit much. Nog, not so much. I doubt Lesnar is going to test Nog’s guard much, but hopefully we’ll get to see.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha ban this thread OH MY are you serious he beats a light heavy and all of the sudden we are talking about this. Where the hell is mma going Im going to lose my mind. Fedor would destroy Brock.
I dont think Lesnar will beat Nog,
When they announced this little he tournament…All the eyes were on Couture and Lesnar…but i think Nog is the best…after Fedor!
Brock has pretty good basic standup. He’s thrown some good elbows, some effective clinch knees and some nice straight punches.
That said, his standup is nowhere near the level of Nog or Fedor and on the ground he is miles behind. Therefore all he has is his strength and his takedowns.
The strength is useful against anyone but the takedowns aren’t going to help him against either. If he is in trouble he goes for the takedown, now he is out of the frying pan and truly into the fire.
Fedor is still a nightmare for Brock. He wouldn’t be calling for this fight if he thought there was any chance he couldn’t win it. He arguably ducked Cro Cop until he had acquired the tools to beat him. Fedor’s biggest weapon is his brain.
2 to 3 years down the road, Brock won’t be so green…
[quote]woohitter wrote:
I also don’t agree that Fedor is the best lb for lb fighter in the world anymore. He is currently fighting castoffs from the UFC and while he is a top 5 fighter hes not the best. Arlovski however is an interesting fighter, If he dominates him I will be impressed, if he has a tough time it will further my belief that he’s not the man he was[/quote]
Really? And by what evidence do you say these things? Fedor absolutely destroyed Tim Sylvia in his last fight. A man who, although certainly not the most entertaining or marketable fighter (the main reasons why the UFC let him go), is far from a chump. And this was after a fairly long lay off.
Who would you say is the best heavyweight? And by what reasoning do you come to this conclusion?
HOW you do realize Fedor is only a year older than Brock i don’t see Brock catching up quick enough
[quote]drewh wrote:
HOW you do realize Fedor is only a year older than Brock i don’t see Brock catching up quick enough[/quote]
Doesn’t really matter. Fedor is not going to progress at the same rate as a nubie (Brock). The gap will continue to close. Whether or not Brock ever gets to level where he can beat Fedor is yet to be seen. I think he will. but again, I am a bit biased.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Fedor is still a nightmare for Brock. He wouldn’t be calling for this fight if he thought there was any chance he couldn’t win it. He arguably ducked Cro Cop until he had acquired the tools to beat him. Fedor’s biggest weapon is his brain.
2 to 3 years down the road, Brock won’t be so green…[/quote]
True.
Lesnar has a ton of potential. I doubt anyone is arguing that. But at this point in time I just don’t think he’d beat Fedor. He’s not well rounded enough (yet).
If the guy is smart/humble, trains with the right people, and becomes well rounded though, then I think he’s the future of the HW division. Maybe Carwin has the potential to challenge him, other than that there aren’t many IMO.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Fedor is still a nightmare for Brock. He wouldn’t be calling for this fight if he thought there was any chance he couldn’t win it. He arguably ducked Cro Cop until he had acquired the tools to beat him. Fedor’s biggest weapon is his brain.
2 to 3 years down the road, Brock won’t be so green…
True.
Lesnar has a ton of potential. I doubt anyone is arguing that. But at this point in time I just don’t think he’d beat Fedor. He’s not well rounded enough (yet).
If the guy is smart/humble, trains with the right people, and becomes well rounded though, then I think he’s the future of the HW division. Maybe Carwin has the potential to challenge him, other than that there aren’t many IMO.[/quote]
Carwin’s striking looks so much more natural. If he could keep it standing against Lesnar, it would be an interesting fight. I also think Gonzaga would be huge challenge for him if he continues with his powerlifting and continues to get stronger. Hopefully we’ll get to see Lesnar/Gonzaga next summer or fall.
We’ll probably NEVER see this fight first of all. I know for sure unless it happens in the UFC (meaning they have Fedor under contract) it will not happen. Dana White is a lot of things, dumb is not one of them.
That said… Brock Lesnar is a wild card, we don’t know what he’s capable of.
From the “Fuck Brock!” side:
He gets beat by previously unranked Mir, walks through Heath Herring (arguably past his prime) and beats an over inflated (and arguably overrated with only a 67% win rate) light heavyweight.
From the “Go Penis Sword!” side:
He got caught in a sub in his second MMA fight with less than year of training by one of the better heavyweight ground guys (and was kicking his ass before that), He walked through a devestating Pride Veteran, and he more than held his own (then destroyed) the flag bearer of our sport… a man that is a literal MMA legend.
We just don’t know enough to be able to predict his abilities. He’s a fucking wildcard.
Could the recent wins have been a fluke?
Yes.
Could he really just be getting THIS good THIS fast?
Yes.
It’s a scary proposition. Some people have made comparisons to Bob Sapp or Kimbo but I think that’s unfair. Imagine if Bob Sapp or Kimbo, two guys with tremendous physical skills already had years of training for a combat sport (wrestling) at a high level and won the highest accolades of that sport. Then subsequently takes that same drive and competitive spirit into THE combat sport… MMA.
You have a juggernaut.
Lets say physically brock is at his peak, and will decline with a few years. He’ll still be leaps and bounds above his competition. Lets also assume that his rate of improvement stays the same… He’ll be one of (if not THE) top heavyweights for years to come.
God forbid he rematches Mir, he’ll kill him.
I think he has a 50/50 chance of getting past Nog. If anyone is going to sub him though it will definitely be Nog.
Lets say he gets past Nog though… Then what?
If he beats Nog then imo he has the best chance out of anyone in the world at beating Fedor. I would say Brock in 3 years (if his rate of development stayed the same) is pretty much is on par with Fedor.
It will probably take ~2yrs for a Fedor fight to be set up, (Mir vs Nog, then Brock vs the winner of that, probably 1 title defense and meanwhile they negotiate getting Fedor) it’s scary to think what might really happen in that time.
Right now I think Fedor beats him soundly, hell I think Josh Barnett does…
But man in a few years he will be scary.
There was a point in the clinch where Couture almost had Lenar’s back. Fedor would have had his back.
Fight ends with Fedor rocking Lesnar, taking his back, and chocking him out. Ala Fujita.
Dana White won’t sign Fedor to a one-fight deal for a reason. He knows what happens. Fedor wins.
More interesting is Big Nog v. Lesnar. The refs will be looking for a reason to stop that fight early, since it’s good for the UFC for Lensar to win. Lesnar might rock Nog, sending him down and throwing some punches. A pro-UFC ref will stop that quickly.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Fedor is still a nightmare for Brock. He wouldn’t be calling for this fight if he thought there was any chance he couldn’t win it. He arguably ducked Cro Cop until he had acquired the tools to beat him. Fedor’s biggest weapon is his brain.
2 to 3 years down the road, Brock won’t be so green…
True.
Lesnar has a ton of potential. I doubt anyone is arguing that. But at this point in time I just don’t think he’d beat Fedor. He’s not well rounded enough (yet).
If the guy is smart/humble, trains with the right people, and becomes well rounded though, then I think he’s the future of the HW division. Maybe Carwin has the potential to challenge him, other than that there aren’t many IMO.
Carwin’s striking looks so much more natural. If he could keep it standing against Lesnar, it would be an interesting fight. I also think Gonzaga would be huge challenge for him if he continues with his powerlifting and continues to get stronger. Hopefully we’ll get to see Lesnar/Gonzaga next summer or fall.
[/quote]
I don’t know about Gonzaga. He’s a big, strong, very good submission guy. But I think he lacks mental toughness.
I also don’t really see him having any way of beating Brock other than a KO. And Brock proved he’s got a decent chin in his fight with Couture. Gonzaga is not going to take Lesnar down, so if it winds up on the ground, Lesnar will be the one taking it there and be the one on top, not good for Gonzaga.
I see Brock either grinding out a decision win over Gonzaga, or rocking him and winning via TKO due to ref stoppage (similar to his fight with Couture).
I honestly think that Carwin would destroy Gonzaga though, even worse than Brock. As you said, he’s got much better striking than Lesnar and the guy knows how to finish fights.
I agree, some good match-ups in the HW division for the near future.