[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Rush88 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Rush88 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
CT, what about strict OP? Should it be viewed more as assistance and the focus on Push Press when it comes to chasing increased numbers/performance? Or the other way around?[/quote]
I see the strict press as an inferior movement versus the push press. In the push press you should be able to use a significantly heavier load, putting more tension on the shoulders (and other muscle groups). In terms of performance there is no comparison. In terms of only building muscle tissue, a case could be made for strict pressing AND for push pressing. So if someone only cares about improving his look and not on being able to perform as well, the strict press can be a good main exercise.
There is also the fact that not many people can do a proper push press. Most basically use the body to throw the barbell upward, but in a forward arc (bar ending in front of face) which basically does nothing for you. When they dip down they either let their torso tilt forward or their hips move forward which also lead to pressing the barbell forward (avoiding the most important position of the push press: the overhead position).
In a proper push press when you dip down the torso and hips should move down in a fairly straight line (if you have long legs you should push your knees out when dipping down). And when you press up, at the moment the barbell leaves the shoulders you should be on your toes and the chest rolled up toward the ceiling (to press in a slight backward angle).
Then when you lock the barbell overhead, the bar should be behind the ears, not directly above the head with the head/chest pushed forward and the hips slightly back.
To me, the strict press is not a great assistance lift for the push press as it doesn’t teach the same movement pattern. That having been said I do not see the push press as a great assistance exercise for the military press either. They are different lifts. [/quote]
What would you consider good assistance lifts for the push press and strict press respectively since you feel those don’t corrlelate that closely to each other when performed in that manner?[/quote]
My favorite assistance exercise is … doing more work on the main exercise.
I’ve always had my fastest progress in push press numbers when I push pressed more often and had the best progress in strict overhead press when I practiced the strict press more.
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Makes sense, I asked because I was always under the impression that the two lifts kind of ran parallel to each other. In a way they do its not you should be able to push press more than you strict press and if you can strict press a certain weight you’ll be able to push press it, the difference will lie in your timing and execution of the lift. I never looked at them in the way you described as far as the purposes of each though.
Nice thread especially since I do want to increase my overhead numbers with this upcoming 10 day cycle and after more than likely using a combination of hdl methods and strength layers.[/quote]
Well, if you see the push press as a slightly cheated strict press, then yes both are similar. But I’ve never seen anybody put up big push press numbers thinking this way. The push press is a lot more than a military press in which you use a little momentum to get the bar started. If done right it is a fairly technical lift that has a different recruitment pattern than a military press.
Normally those who see the push press like a cheated military press might push press 20-30lbs more than they can strict press whereas I’ve seen several people with good push press technique, push press 100lbs or more than they can strict press. For example all of the hockey players that I train push press between 70 and 130lbs more than they can strict press (that last one is not a typo).
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Yeah I’ve pretty much never gotten the most out of my leg drive or done the push press with the different cues you describe. Cant wait to start using it more as an explosive lift rather than just a shoulder movement.