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Fats Post Workout?

There was a thread relating to this a couple weeks ago.

The other day I was in class (living for fitness) and my professor was saying fat was not good post workout, not because it slowed the digestion of carbs but because it did something that blocked certain hormones that aid in the immediate recovery of muscles and that just protein and carbs or just protein should be eaten post workout.

any opinions on this?

I’ve always kept every meal pretty balanced when it comes to macro nutrients regardless of timing so it’s not unusual for me to eat coconut oil and fish oil with my post workout meals.

I’d say keep fat minimal PWO, but in the grand scheme of things how much of an impact will be made? Probably not much of consistency and progression.

Well, fat would block or reduce the insulin response (a hormone :wink: ) other than that, not sure what else your prof was talking about.

Hormones like insulin?

Beyond that, it’s the simple chemistry of how fat is digested in the body. Fat is 9 calories/gram where carbs and protein are only 4. Fat is simply an inefficient refueling choice given the circumstances of the body immediately post workout. It requires too much energy to be utilized. That’s why free form amino acids and predigested proteins are the shit for post workout nutrition, they require less energy to digest.

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Hormones like insulin?

Beyond that, it’s the simple chemistry of how fat is digested in the body. Fat is 9 calories/gram where carbs and protein are only 4. Fat is simply an inefficient refueling choice given the circumstances of the body immediately post workout. It requires too much energy to be utilized. That’s why free form amino acids and predigested proteins are the shit for post workout nutrition, they require less energy to digest. [/quote]

Fat doesn’t require “a huge amount of energy to be utilized.” In fact, the efficiency of digestion for fat is higher than that of carbohydrates and protein by a reasonable amount. You are mixing concepts. Fat takes the longest to digest, slows gastric emptying (which as a consequence will “blunt” the insulin response in a sense and will alter the speed of glucose/amino acid digestion), and may not have any specific acute benefits in the post-workout period. However, in the “big picture,” including fat in your post-workout meal if you got the macro-variables under control probably won’t make a difference.

[quote]Josh Rider wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Hormones like insulin?

Beyond that, it’s the simple chemistry of how fat is digested in the body. Fat is 9 calories/gram where carbs and protein are only 4. Fat is simply an inefficient refueling choice given the circumstances of the body immediately post workout. It requires too much energy to be utilized. That’s why free form amino acids and predigested proteins are the shit for post workout nutrition, they require less energy to digest. [/quote]

Fat doesn’t require “a huge amount of energy to be utilized.” In fact, the efficiency of digestion for fat is higher than that of carbohydrates and protein by a reasonable amount. You are mixing concepts. Fat takes the longest to digest, slows gastric emptying (which as a consequence will “blunt” the insulin response in a sense and will alter the speed of glucose/amino acid digestion), and may not have any specific acute benefits in the post-workout period. However, in the “big picture,” including fat in your post-workout meal if you got the macro-variables under control probably won’t make a difference.

[/quote]

Yes? I don’t see what point you are trying to make. You’ve essentially said the the same thing I did using different terms.

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
any opinions on this?
[/quote]

Though it took awhile, I eventually discovered that, for me, I did better with carbs in the pre/during portion than post. In other words, protein + fats PWO.

But when I finally got back around ~10% bf, the timing didn’t really seem to matter anymore.

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:

Yes? I don’t see what point you are trying to make. You’ve essentially said the the same thing I did using different terms.
[/quote]

Faster absorption =/= less energy to digest.

I would say that fats immediately after a workout might be detrimental if you are trying to take advantage of a rapid insulin spike with simple carbs and a fast digesting protein.

But having said that, there are studies (can’t find em at the moment) that show certain fats can be insulinogenic. I know Keifer talks about them a bit in his CBL book. That is why he isn’t against all fats during the backloading period.

[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
I would say that fats immediately after a workout might be detrimental if you are trying to take advantage of a rapid insulin spike with simple carbs and a fast digesting protein.

But having said that, there are studies (can’t find em at the moment) that show certain fats can be insulinogenic. I know Keifer talks about them a bit in his CBL book. That is why he isn’t against all fats during the backloading period. [/quote]

From what I’ve read no fat is insulinogenic (I may be wrong though), unless of course we’re talking about meat that contains protein + fat, then the protein would be yes.

MCTs? Coconut milk stuff?

Good to see research confirming that P + F post-workout is an excellent approach:

articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/peri-workout-nutrition-part-2-to-carb-or-not-to-carb/

You’ll all be sceptical at what I’m about to say, but I noticed about six years back that I was recovering quite well from my workouts while experimenting with Muscle Milk (I can hear your jaws dropping to the floor), which has a good deal of fat in it. I was only able to afford that stuff for about six months before I realised that it wouldn’t be a sustainable long-term investment, but it pretty much reversed my own personal scepticism of consuming fat post-workout.

Right now for my post-workout drink I’ll mix 30g of whey isolate with about 300 mL of full milk (3.8% fat) and down my BCAAs with it. I can’t tell you what my muscles in fact make of this, but I haven’t had any recovery issues using this protocol and I personally feel much better than in the days when I was downing a dextrose/maltodextrin mix with my whey or trying to cram two bananas down by throat before rushing to work.

[quote]Josh Rider wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Hormones like insulin?

Beyond that, it’s the simple chemistry of how fat is digested in the body. Fat is 9 calories/gram where carbs and protein are only 4. Fat is simply an inefficient refueling choice given the circumstances of the body immediately post workout. It requires too much energy to be utilized. That’s why free form amino acids and predigested proteins are the shit for post workout nutrition, they require less energy to digest. [/quote]

Fat doesn’t require “a huge amount of energy to be utilized.” In fact, the efficiency of digestion for fat is higher than that of carbohydrates and protein by a reasonable amount. You are mixing concepts. Fat takes the longest to digest, slows gastric emptying (which as a consequence will “blunt” the insulin response in a sense and will alter the speed of glucose/amino acid digestion), and may not have any specific acute benefits in the post-workout period. However, in the “big picture,” including fat in your post-workout meal if you got the macro-variables under control probably won’t make a difference.

[/quote]

I learned in school about the gastric emptying being slowed down and the fat taking longer to digest. You’ve both made valid points there, and from that I always try to minimize my fat intake immediately post workout. Instead of steak, I’ll have chicken + carbs when I get home about an hour after my workout. Not necessarily because I wait on purpose, its about how long the commute takes + preparing the food.

^^ You’re obviously doing fine with your approach.

However, for those with less insulin sensitivity (ie with higher bodyfat) it appears that any concerns over a “blunted” insulin response are misguided (and probably also keeping them fatter than they would be otherwise). Now that’s quite a claim, and yet thats what the research indicates. Also that ‘slowed gastric emptying’ part, while true, is also nothing to be concerned with provided total kcals are in-line with one’s goals.

Basically, the ‘no-fat in the PWO window’ approach is geared towards two goals: maximizing insulin response and replenishing glycogen ASAP. And yet the recent research indicates that BOTH of those are not only unnecessary, but they’re possibly even counter-productive for some/many.

Again, quite a claim and pretty big news, probably right up there with us learning that 6-8 daily meals isn’t necessarily mandatory either…

-edited-

In case its at all unclear from my previous post, there’s been a TON OF BROSCIENCE posted in this thread already.

Now its “good broscience”, in that its based on sound science. But incomplete understanding/incorrect application makes it broscience nonetheless.

(though to be fair, none of us were equipped to “know better” via research until fairly recently)

bumped

Makes no sense that my last posts killed the thread.

Or perhaps it makes perfect sense.