I was just wondering everyones opinions on if there is an upper limit to fat gain from a feeding period. Say for example 4hrs? Obviously as the feeding period increased the amount of fat gain would rise. Also the macro nutrient break down would change this as well because some would be faster digesting and slower digesting.
My hypothesis is that there is an upper limit because the body will only be able to digest and absorb a certain amount of the calories that were eaten. The slower the food digest and faster it moves through the system less calories would be absorbed thus less fat gained. Any thoughts and more scientific explanations would be great.
I’ll bite/speculate. Just from the basic mechanics of moving food from the stomach to the intestines, I would be highly skeptical that your notion would reflect the reality of digestion.
Now, another question is what your body is able to do with the calories. To me, it seems like only so much protein could be synthesized into muscle in a given period (leaving what to be done with the excess protein other than stored?). But if this were true then I don’t think IFing would give some people the results that they are getting.
I think that the larger answer is that the body is highly adaptive to the digestion contraints put on it. Ultimately, if you eat food it will get broken down, digested, and absorbed. The only questions are the when, how, and to what end of it all, but that’s something that, I would guess, a lot of people have very different opinions about.
Ryan this is unnecessary. The size and frequency of meals is always going to be secondary to total calories over time. It might be true that you can only digest so much food but thats going to be true regardless of whether you are eating 1 huge meal or the same amount of food spread over 3 meals.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I was just wondering everyones opinions on if there is an upper limit to fat gain from a feeding period. Say for example 4hrs? Obviously as the feeding period increased the amount of fat gain would rise. Also the macro nutrient break down would change this as well because some would be faster digesting and slower digesting.
My hypothesis is that there is an upper limit because the body will only be able to digest and absorb a certain amount of the calories that were eaten. The slower the food digest and faster it moves through the system less calories would be absorbed thus less fat gained. Any thoughts and more scientific explanations would be great.[/quote]
You are oxidizing and storing fat all throughout the day…if you do a “feeding period” which I assume you mean a refeed or carb load , or cheat meal or day…etc… then hopefully you are already VERY lean and metablically efficent at that point.
I hate when people refeed or cheat when they really have no business doing so — you should be into single digit BF% and also training at a high workload capacity --(weights, cardio) etc…to be properly depleted of glycogen, IM triglycerides and BF stores…
I believe the LEANER you are the more intense and longer the feeding period can be — When you FIRST start out refeeding at a not so lean setpoint — the refeed should be short and not intense…then the leaner one gets — the longer and harder the refeed is pushed.
My avatar picture is from refeeding or “cheating” for 48 hours straight. I only increased my RMR and filled out drastically.
Of course when that lean — you canget by with murder.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I was just wondering everyones opinions on if there is an upper limit to fat gain from a feeding period. Say for example 4hrs? Obviously as the feeding period increased the amount of fat gain would rise. Also the macro nutrient break down would change this as well because some would be faster digesting and slower digesting.
My hypothesis is that there is an upper limit because the body will only be able to digest and absorb a certain amount of the calories that were eaten. The slower the food digest and faster it moves through the system less calories would be absorbed thus less fat gained. Any thoughts and more scientific explanations would be great.[/quote]
On the same notion that only refeeding when very lean and depleted — the body will be craving all nutrients and your hunger signal will/should be sky high.
This natural trait of increased hunger will allow digestion and absorption of nutrients to be heightened and when you are satiated — STOP…when you keep on pounding down food AFTER your hunger signal has turned negative – then you risk malabsorption, and indigestion and your body is now fighting you…
No the feeding period is everyday following a time of fasting or low calorie. SO right now i dont eat really anything until noon when i have a leucine spiked whey shake. (10g pro) then a large salad with maybe 3g carb 5g fat and 5-10g pro total with toppings and dressing) then about 30min later 40g pro from a meat source. 20g pro + BCAAs pre workotu then a 3-5hr feedign window after. That is the setup i was reffereing to but i like hearing a debate on a feeding period for anythign really just interesting to me.
[quote]anime wrote:
You should not cheat on a diet.
In addition, I recommend you take Andro HARD Andro MASS or Andro LEAN to accomplish your goals.[/quote]
I have never stated my goals how do you know what they are. My goal of this thread was just to hear some scientific disscusion behind peoples thoughts on the OP
This is pure conjecture, as I don’t have any formal education in nutrition. As such, I would welcome the contrasting perspective that I know must exist:
The OP does point to why I don’t understand the theory behind why IF could be effective for putting on lean mass. Although I don’t think that there’s an upper limit on how many total calories can be processed by the body (so, if you take in 4k calories, then the 4k calories will be broken down and processed in the body), I do think there would have to be an upper limit on the amount of protein that can be utilized by the body within a certain feeding window. It seems like the body would take up the nutrients it is processing/ has processed and allocat what it can to muscle within that time frame as demanded. But the protein not utilized within that “processing time” would presumably be converted and stored. It’s not as if the protein would just sit there and circulate through the bloodstream or stay in the digestive system until the protein can be used for muscle synthesis. Or is the idea that it would?
In other words, I guess what I don’t get about IF for putting on mass is that the human body is growing/repairing itself all the time. Only giving it nutrients within a 4-6 hour window just doesn’t seem optimal.
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
This is pure conjecture, as I don’t have any formal education in nutrition. As such, I would welcome the contrasting perspective that I know must exist:
The OP does point to why I don’t understand the theory behind why IF could be effective for putting on lean mass. Although I don’t think that there’s an upper limit on how many total calories can be processed by the body (so, if you take in 4k calories, then the 4k calories will be broken down and processed in the body), I do think there would have to be an upper limit on the amount of protein that can be utilized by the body within a certain feeding window. It seems like the body would take up the nutrients it is processing/ has processed and allocat what it can to muscle within that time frame as demanded. But the protein not utilized within that “processing time” would presumably be converted and stored. It’s not as if the protein would just sit there and circulate through the bloodstream or stay in the digestive system until the protein can be used for muscle synthesis. Or is the idea that it would?
In other words, I guess what I don’t get about IF for putting on mass is that the human body is growing/repairing itself all the time. Only giving it nutrients within a 4-6 hour window just doesn’t seem optimal.[/quote]
super compensation?
nutrient partioning?
I don’t know any science to it, but those are terms that get thrown around
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
This is pure conjecture, as I don’t have any formal education in nutrition. As such, I would welcome the contrasting perspective that I know must exist:
The OP does point to why I don’t understand the theory behind why IF could be effective for putting on lean mass. Although I don’t think that there’s an upper limit on how many total calories can be processed by the body (so, if you take in 4k calories, then the 4k calories will be broken down and processed in the body), I do think there would have to be an upper limit on the amount of protein that can be utilized by the body within a certain feeding window. It seems like the body would take up the nutrients it is processing/ has processed and allocat what it can to muscle within that time frame as demanded. But the protein not utilized within that “processing time” would presumably be converted and stored. It’s not as if the protein would just sit there and circulate through the bloodstream or stay in the digestive system until the protein can be used for muscle synthesis. Or is the idea that it would?
In other words, I guess what I don’t get about IF for putting on mass is that the human body is growing/repairing itself all the time. Only giving it nutrients within a 4-6 hour window just doesn’t seem optimal.[/quote]
Well, two very cut/jacked/ripped/knowledgable fellows, Berkhan & Berardi have written extensive articles on WHY it works. Berardi has a PDF on his website, Berkhan has a website full of articles. and it is recommended at an 8 hour window, not 4 nor 6.
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
This is pure conjecture, as I don’t have any formal education in nutrition. As such, I would welcome the contrasting perspective that I know must exist:
In other words, I guess what I don’t get about IF for putting on mass is that the human body is growing/repairing itself all the time. Only giving it nutrients within a 4-6 hour window just doesn’t seem optimal.[/quote]
Steak and other sources of protein take a while to be digested. I don’t have numbers, but I think even things like whey isolate can take a couple hours to digest.
First off, I wish I had a forum-batlight of sorts to flare. MODOK needs to come in this thread and drop some knowledge on all of us.
I would make two points to eightohfive about Berardi and Berkhan: firstly, Berardi didn’t put on lean mass with it–he got close to maintaining while losing a lot of body fat. Second, he said that he had clients put on lean mass, but we don’t really know how experienced these clients were. if they were totally new to resistance training, then they could probably do just about anything and put on lean mass.
I mean, I’m sure that there are people on this forum who have had serious success with IFing for putting on mass or whatever. But when I think of the guys on here who have gotten to points that are truly impressive–MODOK, Waylander, Prof X, KingOfBeef, etc–I don’t think any of them got big by spending a large portion of their days fasting and then pounding a ton of food at one time. I just feel like IFing is the exception, not the rule. Then there’s the strain on the system that long-term IFing can have (MODOK has written about this).
I’m sorry if this post was too IF-centric, as I get that Ryan’s OP wasn’t necessarily about IFing.
[quote]anime wrote:
Steak and other sources of protein take a while to be digested. I don’t have numbers, but I think even things like whey isolate can take a couple hours to digest.
[/quote]
whey isolate was 8-10g (of protein) an hour, so the time will depend on the quantity drunk.
I would provide a link but it will be blocked out, it’s on a site by someone who is well thought of in dieting circles…