T Nation

Fat Fast, Day 31--Advice?

Yup, I’ve made it this far, without a cheat to mar my efforts.

I’d originally set 30 days as my goal, but I’m so pleased with the results and so used to the torture that I’m looking to make it to day 40 now (or at least until Thanksgiving Day, anyway).

I never read the hard-copy magazine, so I need to know if I’m on the right track in weening off this insanity. I started adding the original T2 as well as guggols to my supplements after the third week, and was considering continuing that after the transition until my thyroid kicks back in. I’m also planning on a Vitex/Biotest M bridge to help me restore T production after this long bout on andro (I’m taking a 5-Andro/4-Andro combination).

Regarding diet, I’m going to move on to a T-Dawg type diet, with the exception of substituting that breakfast with one of oatmeal and egg whites. Figure I’ll go maintenance for a while and see how things go.

Sound like a plan??

Hey i dont really have any input i just wanted to say Congrats! You have some strong willpower and that means alot you should be proud of yourself! Post some pics and show everybody what fat fast did for you,maybe you will inspire more people to “buckle down”…

Hey great job man that torture. How much fat
did you lose? I been on t-dawg 2.0 about 2 months strenght pretty good down to 9% bf. Getting ready to start maint cals and then put
on some mass. T-dawg a great diet the best
diet I have ever used. Keep in mind carbs up
I used 1 carb up a week.
Keep me fresh and fatloss going. If you need
a copy just pm me I will email it to you.

Ken

You may want to ease carbs back in before Turkey Day…if you eat like I do on that day, a carbless body might go into some sort of shock and/or coma…

How did your comp change?

kkenkenbkr–for some reason I’m not getting a PM prompt at your post, though I’d love to hear how you structure your diet (9% with no strength loss is very commendable).

All others–thanks for the kind words. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I was too nervous pre-diet to either do “Before” shots or take any caliper readings. My bad. I will tell you, subjectively, that I’d say the majority of my loss (197 pounds down to 178 at a height of 5’6") seems to be the ugly adipose. I’ve had absolutely zero strength loss, and most of my shirts are still snug while my pants all feel like the kind MC Hammer used to wear.
I’ll see if I can get some shots scanned in around the holiday and let you all take a whack at me.

And if anyone wants to hear any hints or tips in how I managed, just ask. I’m no expert in any of this, but having done it I’m sure I could impart some wisdom to make the whole thing a little easier. Biggest thing to bear in mind is that it is do-able, and has been, bar none, the best quick-fix diet I’ve ever experienced in terms of dramatic body comp changes.

Congrats! I would drop the andro as soon as possible to allow your own natural test to start pumpin’ again. otherwise you could have a nasty rebound and gain back fat and/or lose motivation. Try the biotest M. I have had mixed results with it. It seems to work best for me at only 1 cap per day, 4 days on/3 off. But I highly recommend tribex and the new redkat is fantstic. Plus you should get an extra bonus of additional fatloss and a jacked libido. Fun. You are highly motivated and disciplined if you have gone 30 days and are considering 10 more. Congrats again on all your hard work.

Yeah Bosco post any tips that you may have that could help other people down the line…

Hey Bosco
Can you post the particulars of how you structured your diet. Great work if i get brave i might try it!

“And if anyone wants to hear any hints or tips in how I managed, just ask. I’m no expert in any of this, but having done it I’m sure I could impart some wisdom to make the whole thing a little easier. Biggest thing to bear in mind is that it is do-able, and has been, bar none, the best quick-fix diet I’ve ever experienced in terms of dramatic body comp changes.”

Post ANYTHING!! ANY details would help a lot.

I myself started a ketogenic diet (not Fat Fast, about 1900 cals/day) last Monday (Nov 10th) but I messed up on the weekend. I started again this Monday and I’ve eaten 14g carbs a day for the past few days.

Do you think you can post your daily meal schedule? That’s what I want to know, as I’m sure everyone else wants that info too. And what did you do to stave off hunger?? If it weren’t for the hunger part, I would be on Fat Fast right now instead of just a regular ketogenic diet. I’ve tried it, but I just can’t deal with being so hungry… How the heck do you survive on 1300 calories a day?? Also, did you do any cardio? (Maybe posting your training would be good too?)

You may not be an expert on Fat Fast, but I think you’ve been on it the longest out of ANYONE so far – including Brock!! He could only last 24 days!

Any help would be much appreciated
-Paul

By the way, are you using Hot-Rox? Any other supplements?

You might try some appetite suppressants if you want to fat fast. I’m going to fat fast for 2 weeks to initiate my cutting cycle for 8 weeks. After 2 weeks I’ll switch to T-Dawg 2.0 so I don’t burn off all the muscle and strength I got during my last strength phase.

I use ECA and it seems to keep things under control.

At the end of the day its about will power and results. The longer you have the willpower, the sooner you are going to see results that will just motivate you to suck it up and do the right thing.

Okay, let me take a crack at it:

There’s nothing really fancy to it. I figured on about 5-6 meals per day, each consisting of 1 scoop of Low Carb Grow or other low carb protein powder, plus one tblspn of flax oil. Total calorie target was 1200-1300.

Yeah, pretty monotonous, huh? So as the days went on I fiddled a little with meals. First off, I started each day with 8-9 egg whites and 1 Tblspn of flax; not exactly gourmet, but at least it gave me something to chew. I’d occassionally change the evening meal (not the pre-snooze shake, but rather the meal before that) to consist of 3-4 ounces of ground sirloin, ground turkey, lean tenderloin, etc. along with additional oil if needed. Again, nothing dramatic, but it gave me the sensation that I was actually having a meal.

Those were the only alterations to the basic meal plan, except that every few days I added 50 or so calories of steamed, mixed veggies (cauliflower, broccoli, etc.) to the evening meal to help with digestion/elimination (nothing worse for a dieter’s psyche than suffering through horrible food AND having to worry about when you’ll ever take a crap again).

I added one planned cheat carb-up per week, usually on a Sunday morning. This consisted of 10 egg whites accompanied by 3-4 pieces of whole wheat bread (stone ground, unbromated) smothered in marmalade or jam. I’d toss down a few r-ALA before and after, just to keep the insulin response to a minimum. The purpose of this meal was mostly psychological, though I don’t think it was coincidence that my best workouts were usually early in the week after this gorging.

As far as tips/tricks/supplements:

  1. As previously mentioned, I often mixed my protein powder/flax into a pudding consistency, again to pretend that I was actually eating. Believe it or not, I also salted the concoction, as endless meals of the powder gets sickening in its sweetness and you end up craving salt.

  2. I downed gallons of diluted Crystal Light, particularly between meals and at night. I also found that between meals was a good time to take supplements; sometimes a mouthful of pills tricks your belly into thinking you’ve eaten.

  3. I learned to love psyllium husk! Take it liberally (I used double the dose recommended, and often 3 times a day!). There’s really no downside if you take it within reason…it helps you poop, doesn’t contain calories, and fills you up between meals. I even mixed it in my protein pudding at times, as it’s fairly taste-free.

  4. My basic supps were ephedrine and a 4-Andro/5-Andro mix. After the 3-week mark, I added the original T-2 and guggols to ensure that my thyroid didn’t go to sleep. I also added a multi-vitamin, additional vitamin C, and additional potassium. This, plus a post-workout dose of glutamine, seemed to keep cramping at bay.

  5. I was quite liberal with diet Pepsi and black coffee…both seemed to put a little dent in my hunger, at least enough to bridge me to the next meal.

  6. Besides constipation, the thing I feared most going in was insomnia (which had been a companion on previous diets). I was especially afraid this time due to the combination of hunger, low carbs, and andro/ephedrine. I combatted it this time with over-the-counter sleep aids and ZMA, although several night I didn’t even need them since my workouts left me so drained.

As far as workouts, I alternated lifting and steady-state aerobic days, along with one day per week of combat martial arts. I never scheduled a day off, although work/family demands lead me to miss one or two over the 30-plus day period. My workouts were usually two bodyparts, and I tried to start the workout with the big exercise basics (i.e. squat, dead, bench, etc.), and then progress toward the supplemental movements. The big ones I did alone, varying the reps within the 5-8 rep range to ensure I didn’t turn into a puny weakling. Then I incorporated alternating supersets (muscle group A + muscle group B), or supersets consisting of one muscle group with abs. The goal of that structure was to get my basic power movements in first, and then progress toward a pace that was conducive to a higher heart rate and greater calorie burn. I never went rep-crazy, though…12 rep sets were about the max.

My aerobics were all steady-state, consisting of 30 minutes of outside running or treadmill running. Nothing too rigorous, just enough to burn 350-450 calories.

So…I think that about covers it. Nothing that fancy, but the beauty of this diet is, in part, its simplicity. And the best thing of all is that it provides almost instant gratification…one look in the mirror every morning was enough to psyche me up for the coming day. Hunger I can handle, as long as I see it’s getting me where I want to go.

That’s all I can think of, guys. Fire away with questions about anything I missed, or PM me. And jump on in to the diet…it’s a pisser, but well worth it. And if you can handle this, you can handle anything!

Can you post your body fat percentage results? Also, how was your strength affected as it relates to your big lifts? Every time I try to keto I end up losing strength and getting pissed so I come off it.

What was your macronutrient/caloric breakdown on Sundays? Did you drop the fat in place of carbs for the day to stay at 1300?

Where did you get your psyllium husk and which brand?

As far as sups go, you only used r-ALA on carb refeed days? I’ve read that it may help just to take it all the time in order to clear up any remaining blood glucose and make it easier to get into / stay in ketosis. Your thoughts on this?

How much r-ALA exactly did you take before and after your refeed? (Also, any recommended brand?)

And how necessary do you think the T-2 and guggols were?

Ah, your workout is very similar to mine, mostly big compound movements. Except I do a little powerlifting now and then, cleaning and snatching mostly. Althought at the moment I do barely any cardio. I prefer sprinting and other HIIT type energy-system work, but lately I haven’t been able to do so regularly due to school/work.

What about HOT-ROX? If I do switch from my current ketogenic diet onto Fat Fast, I think Hot-Rox may help a lot. Any reason you’re not using it? Don’t like it? Too expensive?

And finally, I too would like to know your current results so far. What changes have you observed exactly? Body fat / strength, etc

By the way, at the beginning why did you make such an effort to stay away from solid foods? Maybe I misunderstood Brock? I thought he was just using a special protein blend for simplicity and preference. Is it actually advised NOT to eat real food, even if the macros are the same? If so, what’s the reason behind it?

Damn, Bosco, that’s hardcore!

When I was on the ‘Atkins’ type fat fast, I ate 5 meals/day, selecting from the following menu choices:

one ounce of Macadamia nuts

2 ounces of cream cheese

one ounce of salmon w/2tsp real mayo OR
same with Tuna instead of salmon, but also add 1/4 avocado.

2 deviled eggs (2 tsp mayo)

2 hard-boiled egg yolks w/1 tbsp mayo

mousse made with 2.5 ounces of heavy-cream whipped up with electric mixer and some artifical flavor

I followed this for about 3 days, then added in either a 6th & 7th meal, or added a beef patty (1/8 pound 90% lean) to 2 eggs scrambled.

I was in ketosis BIG-TIME, but I was so weak I couldn’t continue after a week or so. Now I know that I can use an ECA stack and Hotrox. I think I’ll do it again in the spring after my bulk cycles.

Great job, man!

Paul,

You mean “oly lifting” don’t you?

The clean and snatch aren’t powerlifting movements, even if you’re doing the “power” variations.

Dan “Yeah, I’m anal. I was potty-trained at gunpoint.” McVicker

Woops! Yeah Dan, you’re right. I meant olympic lifting. Damn typpos…

show us some pics b4 and after

Sorry it took me a while to respond, but I composed a lengthy, detailed answer that somehow got lost in the internet vapors. Love it when that happens, don’t you?

Anyway, on to my responses. As I mentioned before, I was too gun-shy and uncertain about where this was heading to invest the time in “before” shots or readings. My educated guess is that I started at about 17-18%, and am currently at 10-11% (that’s conservative…I may be a bit lower). Unscientific, I know, but these guesses are based on mirror analysis as well as previous experience in doing such transformations. As for pictures, I may try to fire up the new digital camera just before Thanksgiving and see if I can submit a couple of shots (might have to deal with this frightening snow-white tan, though).

As far as strength levels, I lost not a single ounce in any of my major lifts. Like I mentioned before, I attribute this as much to the boatloads of andro and ephedrine I’m on. If you’re just curious about my lifts, I should warn you I’m a broken old shit (43) currently dealing with both rotator and knee issues. Given that caveat, I generally handled the following (plus or minus)during the diet: Squat (below parallel, no wraps): 350x6; Romanian Deads: 365x6; Power Rack Deads (just below knees): 575x2; DB rows: 120x6; Pulldowns: 220x8; DB bench: 120x6. I can’t do any overhead work right now because of the rotators, but I usually handle 170-180 in the military press for sets of 2-3; I’m still able to do most DB lateral movements, and continue to use 40-50 pounds in most of those. As far as my supplemental exercises, most of those involved Hammer or cable movements (again, because of injury). Those I actually saw some improvement in, probably because I could really bear down without worrying about stabilizers.

On the cheat Sundays, once I finished the carb-up breakfast I just resumed my normal eating schedule a couple of hours afterward (allowing the sugars to clear before resuming fats). There would probably be a more precise way of doing things, but it seemed to work.

I used 200mg of r-ALA while I was preparing the meal, then the same immediately afterward. I used AST’s brand…I know there’s another thread in which AST is trashed, but I’ve always liked there stuff. And I never considered taking the r-ALA every day…I really wasn’t ingesting enough carbs to worry about, plus I’m not convinced that you have to be in ketosis all the time to burn fat, anyway.

The T-2 and guggols seemed to work great, although I’m not certain you could call them “necessary.” My fat loss did ramp up again after adding them, though, so my thyroid probably was napping by the third week. As to Hotrox, why not PM me where we can discuss offline.

The psyllium I used is called Colon Cleanse, which I got at a local health store. It’s by Health Plus, Inc., and I got it for around $9 (48 servings). If you can’t find it, there web address is www.healthplusinc.com. I’m sure there are other, similar brands, but be sure to get one that is pure psyllium husk (that way you don’t ingest unnecessary carbs).

I stayed away from solids for a good portion of the diet because that’s the way Brock outlined it. Plus, I’m a lazy shit, and doing it that way made mapping out the calories/protein/fat alot easier. I was afraid that the more I varied the greater the chances of cheating.

Little Jay: wish you’d posted about a month ago! That stuff sounds freakin’ delicious, although almost anything does after a month of salted chocolate casein, I suppose!

Alright, that’ll do it. Hopefully this one gets sent down the right pipe and onto the forum. Thanks again, guys, and feel free to send any other questions my way.