T Nation



I might of missed this somewhere, but what is the background behind not eating both CHO & Fats in the same meal?


Check out: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460027

This link explains it all



This is a JB question. If you read "massive eating" he talks about it. Link's down in the "Are you a Beginner II" thread.

In short:

Insulin is a double-edged sword. It is the most anabolic hormone in the body, but if it runs rampant you get excess body fat and, at worst, diabetes, heart disease, and all sorts of metabolic disorders.

The idea behind the P+C and P+F but not C+F meals is to maximize insulin while minimizing circulating fatty acids in the blood. (And vice versa--when I do eat fats, I don't want a big insulin rush. But you need fats to produce testosterone and keep everything running smoothly.)

I.E. if I were to eat some french fries and a Coke, I'd be getting a massive load of crap saturated fats and trans-fats. The Coke would pop my blood sugar up at the same time, and I'd get a massive insulin response.

The insulin would then proceed to suck all the nutrients out of the blood, shuttling them to the cells. Since I have nothing but crap fats in my blood, I get crap fats shoved willy-nilly into my cells. End result after rinsing and repeating? I become a corpulent douchebag sitting on the couch and watching daytime talk shows.

Now, let's flip that scenario. P+C, like Surge. Same insulin response, but this time, I have quality protein, amino acids, and quite possibly creatine in my blood. Insulin does its thing, and whammo, instead of crap fat, my cells get a nice protein snack.

Now, if you timed this right (i.e. early morning or post-workout) you can add to this effect because your cells are "hungry". (That is, you've used up some of the glycogen to exercise, or while you were sleeping). This way your body absorbs more of the carbs without converting them to fat. (If your muscles are full and you eat a P+C meal, you get "glycogen spillover" and the excess will be stored as fat.)

Hope that answers the question.

Dan "I ain't got no biochem degree, though, so I mighta oversimplimafied some thangs" McVicker



That could have saved me half an hour of typing.

Dan "wasting his time" McVicker


But it saved me a half an hour of reading, so for that, I thank you..


If you're eating protein and fats, which blunt insulin response, wouldn't that keep the storage of fats to a minimum? This being due to the slow down of the absorption of the fats?


I as well am appreciative of Dan's excellent summary. Thanks


That's the idea, yeah, to prevent dietary fats from becoming body fat.

Dietary fats do a lot of other good things in the body though (like, you need them to make Testosterone) which is why you don't just go P+C, P+C, P+C all the time, like a 1980s bodybuilder eating chicken and rice for six meals a day. Maybe they could get away with it because of the Anabolics they were on, but I can feel the difference if I go too low-fat.

This gets into the whole topic of fat selection. Search for old posts by "Cassandra" if you want to learn something about that.

The classic book in the field of fat selection is "Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill" by Udo Erasmus. Biotest promised an awesome fat supplement a while ago, but I don't know if it ever came out. Fish oils, right now, are the creatine of fat supplementation, IMO.

Remember to take this all with a grain of salt--unless you're really trying to get cut or put on a bunch of mass without fat, some P+F+C meals are okay.

Check out this link...


... especially this part:

and this part:

Dan "Another half hour down the tubes" McVicker

(edited for clarity and redundancy)


I prefer to have a life. Most meals contain all three macronutrients and I'll be pulling my hair out if I think about insulin spikes 24/7. Just eat enough calories with healthy food(15-16x body weight not counting protein) and get a protein shake once a day to get 1g/lb of protein and you're set.

People who get THAT worked out usually don't bother inquiring about minutia like daily insulin spikes - they don't need to. And I hadn't seen any advice that would really make a significant addition to the above formula(except the AD). All these little tricks are just overcomplicating things.


It really isn't that hard to find P + C or P + F meals...

Tuna is great protein, it's often eaten with bread for P + C, or packed in olive oil for P + F

Oatmeal with Grow! powder is very common for a morning P + C meal

Any sort of sandwich for just P + C (don't load up on mayo though, of course)

Grilled red meat for P + F

Natural peanut butter mixed with cottage cheese in a blender is great for P + F and easiest to make

2 tbsps of fish oil for fat or a side of nuts also helps

I never found it that hard to be anal about it.


Proponents of this kind of eating have said that its not necessary for reduction of fat to separate fat/cho all the time. For those that do, it seems to simplify life, not complicate it.