I can’t speak to fasting to gain muscle, but I did start a weekly fast about 6 weeks ago for other reasons.
Short story: I developed chronic hives 6 years ago. I’ve been to 4 docs about it and nobody can figure out what’s what. Not a food allergy, possibly connected to cortisol levels. But in the end, the docs don’t know what’s causing it. I’m also pre-diabetic.
So I figure to go down the cortisol/insulin sensitivity route. I gave up coffee and things improved. I’m already mainly eating lower carb, and that seems to help. Couldn’t figure out what else to do.
Found some info in an article some where and decided to try a 24 hour fast, once a week. So I don’t eat on Wednesdays now. I’m still making progress in the gym, feel better, and the hives have improved even more. I think there might be something to the whole “letting the body focus on healing itself” thing, but tough to know for sure. I just know it’s working for me currently and I’m gonna ride it for a while and see where it gets me.
Do you mind if I ask what you eat the rest of the week? Cutting out coffee and lowering carbs sounds like a good idea, but where are you starting from? What’s your current weekly food intake look like?
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
ckallander wrote:
You’re drinking maple syrup all week as your only food source and calling it a fast. This is bullshit. You’d be better off eating nothing.
Eating nothing but simple carbs for a week is fucking stupid. It will not make you healthier. If you want to fast for fat loss, eating protein will suit you much better. This bullshit is fucking pointless.[/quote]
[quote]VealChop wrote:
Do you mind if I ask what you eat the rest of the week? Cutting out coffee and lowering carbs sounds like a good idea, but where are you starting from? What’s your current weekly food intake look like?[/quote]
In general, something like this…
Breakfast
Eggs (possibly with green onions, garlic, sausage, mushrooms) or Steel Cut Oats with berries.
Lunch and Dinner
Meat (usually chicken thighs or some sort of beef) with cooked or raw vegetables.
Snacks
Plain yogurt, fruit
That’s been the basic outline for about a year now. I’m gaining strength/muscle and losing fat, but doing both pretty slowly. When I started lifting in 2005 I was in pretty bad shape as far as eating and general fitness go.
This sort of idea interests me. I’m very big on the health aspect behind bodybuilding and am pretty opposed to the idea of eating bad food just for the energy. I am willing to make sacrifices however.
Anyway, recently my appetite has been absolutely awful. I always get within a surplus range of 500-700cal with minimum being 3000. Lately, however, I’ve been seriously battling gagging. I have to really choke down my food and my urge to vomit from my training effort is at an all time high (the actual effort hasn’t changed much). I actually did vomit up my breakfast for the first time a few days ago, and I’m convinced something like pulling back on the reins a bit would help. I feel this way because I remember how good food ‘felt’ when I was dieting, and how horrible food feels in my current overfed state.
Charlemagne, why did you trust Paul Bragg over say, anyone else in particular? What made his name stick out to you (before AND after reading) that his experience would have application to you as a lifter?
I’m impressed by your findings. After much reading and application of ketosis (which is hormonally related to starvation), I believe the truly catabolic states wouldn’t set in for a good 3-5 days without food.
EDIT: I was also contemplating using Layne Norton’s idea of mass eating for 4-6wks followed by 2wks of dieting to control fat, but my goal would be leaning more towards getting that appetite back and digestion better (which is also pretty lousy at the moment). This fasting idea seems a lot more efficient, though.
Any comments on the high frequency of fasting (once every week for 24 hours)? It seems like a lot.
[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Any comments on the high frequency of fasting (once every week for 24 hours)? It seems like a lot.[/quote]
I work out on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday and fast on Wednesday. I like it and I’m feeling better. I’m still able to hit the gym with intensity.
It’s a pretty easy thing to try out, there’s no planning and nothing to buy. So you can give it a try for a couple of weeks and see if it helps you towards your goals.
I think if you generally feel good/healthy and you’re making satisfactory progress towards your goals, there’s not much reason to do it though.
Pulling back the reigns a little, from a 500-700 surplus doesn’t exactly equate to starving yourself. Have you tried different foods? I know people that simply can’t stomach eggs EVERY morning, personally, any more than four on my plate, and I start having trouble keeping the first three down.
Guys, I don’t think the point of all this is to force feed ourselves into food hell. But starving yourself to set things straight doesn’t make any sense either. Can you look into other foods that you might actually enjoy first?
I spent a lot of money on toys and a new car lately, so I’m thinking I might not pay my mortgage for a couple months to make up for it. This is really stupid, find a middle ground. Try different foods…what does your current diet look like? What are you forcing yourself to eat lately?
Intermittent fasting is the diet plan of the future. It boils down to our ancestors. Think of the first humans beyond 10,000 years ago (i.e., before farming hit full swing). Hunters and gathers went out on the hunt and exerted loads of energy for a kill. When they were successful, they ate for days. But sometimes they were not. There bodies learned how to adapt during these forced fasts. We evolved from these same ancestors. Hence why we don’t take processed grains that well.
If you eat like these ancestors (proteins, animal fats, and carbs from fruis and veggies) and compensate for never missing a kill (intermittent fasting), your body will respond.
In fact, lifting during a fast can actually lead to strength gains. Here is the rationale. When our cavemen ancestors were unsuccesful, their bodies had to responses. One, become weak and not focused. Or two, divert all energy to strength and focus to ensure that the next hunt was successful. Obviously, group one died and did not pass along its jeans. Group two thrived.
[quote]VealChop wrote:
The frequency and division of nutrients is not only important, its the entire point. Try going into the desert and drinking your entire canteen of water all at once at about mid day instead of spacing it out over 24-48 hours and see how that works.
If you eat the same exact quantity of food, but in one instance you do it all at once, right before bed, and in the other, you cut it into four balanced parts, and eat throughout the day, you think this is exactly the same thing???
Heck, why even bother splitting up the body into parts, just blast it one time per week in the gym, that will all average out too.
I’m not saying you’ll die if you fast and eat once a day, Ghandi proved that. I’m saying it’s a gimme that it’s not nearly optimal. In fact, I would bet most of America follows that “diet”. Have you seen most of America? Dude, it’s a stupid argument. One is simply not as good as the other, and the entire strength training community agrees on this one. I mean as much as they DON’T agree on, this one is universal! [/quote]
[quote]gonugs wrote:
VealChop wrote:
Do you mind if I ask what you eat the rest of the week? Cutting out coffee and lowering carbs sounds like a good idea, but where are you starting from? What’s your current weekly food intake look like?
In general, something like this…
Breakfast
Eggs (possibly with green onions, garlic, sausage, mushrooms) or Steel Cut Oats with berries.
Lunch and Dinner
Meat (usually chicken thighs or some sort of beef) with cooked or raw vegetables.
Snacks
Plain yogurt, fruit
That’s been the basic outline for about a year now. I’m gaining strength/muscle and losing fat, but doing both pretty slowly. When I started lifting in 2005 I was in pretty bad shape as far as eating and general fitness go.[/quote]
Well certainly nothing is jumping out at me from that list, seems pretty normal to me. I guess if it’s working for you, keep it up. Have you seen a doctor about any of that?
[quote]VealChop wrote:
Well certainly nothing is jumping out at me from that list, seems pretty normal to me. I guess if it’s working for you, keep it up. Have you seen a doctor about any of that?[/quote]
Yup. I’ve seen about 4 docs about the hives. Turns out some ridiculous number (I think it’s above 90%) of hives cases never have an exact cause diagnosed. So at least I’ve got that going for me, which is nice. That’s why I keep researching and trying stuff out on myself. I gotta believe I’ll figure it out some day.
[quote]MitchorRuby wrote:
VealChop wrote:
The frequency and division of nutrients is not only important, its the entire point. Try going into the desert and drinking your entire canteen of water all at once at about mid day instead of spacing it out over 24-48 hours and see how that works.
If you eat the same exact quantity of food, but in one instance you do it all at once, right before bed, and in the other, you cut it into four balanced parts, and eat throughout the day, you think this is exactly the same thing???
Heck, why even bother splitting up the body into parts, just blast it one time per week in the gym, that will all average out too.
I’m not saying you’ll die if you fast and eat once a day, Ghandi proved that. I’m saying it’s a gimme that it’s not nearly optimal. In fact, I would bet most of America follows that “diet”. Have you seen most of America? Dude, it’s a stupid argument. One is simply not as good as the other, and the entire strength training community agrees on this one. I mean as much as they DON’T agree on, this one is universal!
Losing credibility…fast.
[/quote]
Funny, in a thread entitled “Fasting to Gain Muscular Weight Works”, I’m the one losing credibility. Ok geniuses, go ahead and starve yourselves right into the Olympia.
[quote]McG78 wrote:
Intermittent fasting is the diet plan of the future. It boils down to our ancestors. Think of the first humans beyond 10,000 years ago (i.e., before farming hit full swing). Hunters and gathers went out on the hunt and exerted loads of energy for a kill. When they were successful, they ate for days. But sometimes they were not. There bodies learned how to adapt during these forced fasts. We evolved from these same ancestors. Hence why we don’t take processed grains that well.
If you eat like these ancestors (proteins, animal fats, and carbs from fruis and veggies) and compensate for never missing a kill (intermittent fasting), your body will respond.
In fact, lifting during a fast can actually lead to strength gains. Here is the rationale. When our cavemen ancestors were unsuccesful, their bodies had to responses. One, become weak and not focused. Or two, divert all energy to strength and focus to ensure that the next hunt was successful. Obviously, group one died and did not pass along its jeans. Group two thrived.[/quote]
Wouldn’t that make intermittent fasting the diet plan of the past?
[quote]McG78 wrote:
Intermittent fasting is the diet plan of the future. It boils down to our ancestors. Think of the first humans beyond 10,000 years ago (i.e., before farming hit full swing). Hunters and gathers went out on the hunt and exerted loads of energy for a kill. When they were successful, they ate for days. But sometimes they were not. There bodies learned how to adapt during these forced fasts. We evolved from these same ancestors. Hence why we don’t take processed grains that well.
If you eat like these ancestors (proteins, animal fats, and carbs from fruis and veggies) and compensate for never missing a kill (intermittent fasting), your body will respond.
In fact, lifting during a fast can actually lead to strength gains. Here is the rationale. When our cavemen ancestors were unsuccesful, their bodies had to responses. One, become weak and not focused. Or two, divert all energy to strength and focus to ensure that the next hunt was successful. Obviously, group one died and did not pass along its jeans. Group two thrived.[/quote]
Pure speculation and wishful thinking. the body is incredibly adaptive. If our ancestors saw that today people were voluntarily fasting, they would shit a brick (if they ate, that is)
[quote]Justin Negrete wrote:
McG78 wrote:
Intermittent fasting is the diet plan of the future. It boils down to our ancestors. Think of the first humans beyond 10,000 years ago (i.e., before farming hit full swing). Hunters and gathers went out on the hunt and exerted loads of energy for a kill. When they were successful, they ate for days. But sometimes they were not. There bodies learned how to adapt during these forced fasts. We evolved from these same ancestors. Hence why we don’t take processed grains that well.
If you eat like these ancestors (proteins, animal fats, and carbs from fruis and veggies) and compensate for never missing a kill (intermittent fasting), your body will respond.
In fact, lifting during a fast can actually lead to strength gains. Here is the rationale. When our cavemen ancestors were unsuccesful, their bodies had to responses. One, become weak and not focused. Or two, divert all energy to strength and focus to ensure that the next hunt was successful. Obviously, group one died and did not pass along its jeans. Group two thrived.
Pure speculation and wishful thinking. the body is incredibly adaptive. If our ancestors saw that today people were voluntarily fasting, they would shit a brick (if they ate, that is)[/quote]
10,000 years of readily available food doesn’t change potentially millions of years of evolution. Every animal on the planet, has the same physiological response to starvation. Moreover, if we are so adaptive in the short-term, why does are body still not fully accept grains as a primary food source.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
ckallander wrote:
You’re drinking maple syrup all week as your only food source and calling it a fast. This is bullshit. You’d be better off eating nothing.
Eating nothing but simple carbs for a week is fucking stupid. It will not make you healthier. If you want to fast for fat loss, eating protein will suit you much better. This bullshit is fucking pointless.
This right here[/quote]
Yes, eating strictly maple syrup would be pointless.
I can’t imagine myself fasting for any reason, that shit would suck.
[quote]McG78 wrote:
Justin Negrete wrote:
McG78 wrote:
Intermittent fasting is the diet plan of the future. It boils down to our ancestors. Think of the first humans beyond 10,000 years ago (i.e., before farming hit full swing). Hunters and gathers went out on the hunt and exerted loads of energy for a kill. When they were successful, they ate for days. But sometimes they were not. There bodies learned how to adapt during these forced fasts. We evolved from these same ancestors. Hence why we don’t take processed grains that well.
If you eat like these ancestors (proteins, animal fats, and carbs from fruis and veggies) and compensate for never missing a kill (intermittent fasting), your body will respond.
In fact, lifting during a fast can actually lead to strength gains. Here is the rationale. When our cavemen ancestors were unsuccesful, their bodies had to responses. One, become weak and not focused. Or two, divert all energy to strength and focus to ensure that the next hunt was successful. Obviously, group one died and did not pass along its jeans. Group two thrived.
Pure speculation and wishful thinking. the body is incredibly adaptive. If our ancestors saw that today people were voluntarily fasting, they would shit a brick (if they ate, that is)
10,000 years of readily available food doesn’t change potentially millions of years of evolution. Every animal on the planet, has the same physiological response to starvation. Moreover, if we are so adaptive in the short-term, why does are body still not fully accept grains as a primary food source.[/quote]
Exactly. I have taken a number of classes in college on evolution and how mankind evolved from a physical and mental standpoint. I am by no means an expert on the subject but implementing some of these ideas on how we used to live and eat has definitely helped me out for the better in my own health pursuits.