T Nation

Fast-Acting Proteins

My son, Tyler, will soon be home for the summer. I plan to train him, and some of his buddies, on several special projects.

Most of you may be familiar with Tyler’s results, which are reported in my 30-10-30 ebook. Tyler gained 17 pounds of muscle over the 2020 Christmas break.

Some of the readers of this report keep asking about the grams of protein that Tyler consumed to gain this much muscle.

A lot of Tyler’s grams of protein were supplied by his daily consumption of Tim Patterson’s Biotest supplements: Plazma and Mag-10. Tyler’s exact daily supplies were detailed in the ebook.

Generally, the protein requirements for bodybuilding have been established at 0.735 grams per pound of body weight. We made sure Tyler met those requirements each day.

For 40 years, I’ve written that protein above what you’d normally get from ordinary foods, is not necessary for building muscle. But during those years, I never experienced the chemistry involved in Plazma and Mag-10. Specifically, I’m referring to the casein hydrolysate peptides and cyclic dextrin makeup of the proteins and carbohydrates of both supplements.

I’ve consumed many protein and energy supplements in my life, but I’ve never experienced anything like Plazma and Mag-10. In a matter of 10-15 minutes after consuming either of the supplements, I can feel the chemistry going into my bloodstream.

Yes, the Biotest supplements are expensive. But in my opinion, they are worth it.

I’ll be doing more bodybuilding projects projects in the future and many of them will involve the use of Plazma and Mag-10.

2 Likes

I have to agree with you on Plazma and Mag 10. They seem to have a lot of functions; they provide a pump and extra blood to the muscles like a pre workout formula but with a more sustained-long lasting effect, hydrate and even taste like Gatorade, they have definitely added more of a fullness to my muscles, and most importantly they have helped increase my recovery! I’m two workouts into the Extreme HIT program and they have definitely helped me recover quickly from those intense sessions as well as the softball batting practice and manual labor I participated in over the weekend. I usually am very dubious of any supplements and usually don’t take anything other than creatine, but this actually far exceeded my expectations. They aren’t magic by any means, but the better pumps, extra muscle fullness, and enhanced recovery definitely make them worth it.

What you have stated is especially true for us guys over 70 years of age.

1 Like

I’ve just started using Gaspari Size On. Similiar product to Plazma. Whey hydrolystate, not casein. Similiar cyclic dextrin. I’m 53 and this is the first intra workout product i’ve ever used! Seems to be helping. To be fair, after this i will try plazma(at twice the price). Will compare labels later

HI Dr. Darden - On protein requirements, there’s quite a bit of information regarding protein and IGF-1 concerns especially as we age based on the association with accelerated aging, cancer (prostate with men), etc. eg Dr. Ron Rosedale, MD, who is an endocrinologisit (low carb, btw), Dr. Valter Longo, PhD, and Dr. Mark Mattson, PhD, (considered the leading experts on longevity to include brain health, etc.) and others actually recommend considerably less protein than suggested.

Rosedale: Dr. Ron Rosedale - 'The Critical Connection Between Protein, Cancer, Aging and TOR' - YouTube
Mattson: Episode 7: Mark Mattson talks about benefits of intermittent fasting | IHMC | Institute for Human & Machine Cognition “There is quite a bit of evidence that high protein intake is not good for aging.”
Longo: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/igf-1-and-its-role-in-aging " Protein intake increases IGF-1 levels and contributes to aging"

Based on reading their information, references and research along with your books, I’ve intentionally reduced my protein intake with no loss of strength – I dropped the days of pushing for PRs at least 12 years ago and focused on plans like SuperSlow and more recently 30/30/30 where I can use more intensity and less weight.

I know I’ll never crack a +450lb bench press again, but, at this point the focus (IMHO) is “living longer, stronger” vs. the mindset of when I started lifting.

Thoughts? Thanks -

What you said sounds sensible to me.

Having made the turnaround from sceptic to believer re the effects of Plazma (Peptopro and Cyclic dextrin) - Me too was pleasantly surprised when I felt the great pump and also long-lasting fullness of muscle post workout. Having finished my workout - I felt like doing another one - and that is really something unexpected of a powder! In fact, the compound is so great I consider taking it even on rest days. Nutritional science has done it again!

1 Like

Any thoughts on your part on recommending .735g/pound vs. .36g/pound that Longo suggests?

Ellington: Plazma and Mag10 have many of the same ingredients. What differs between them? It seems from your book that Plazma is best for pre-workout and Mag10 is more post-workout. Are there other fine pojnts beyond that?

The ideal protein requirement for building muscle may be different than the ideal protein requirement for living longer.

That’s probably the case. But I don’t think there’s been any major nutritional studies involving the Plazma ingredients and aging.

1 Like

Mag 10 has less carbs and more protein so it really serves better as a recovery day supplement. Mag 10 is also lower calorie.

Just thought about this…when I met Mentzer years ago in Venice, he told me he consumed way less protein than his peers and did fine by it. He also mentioned Arthur Jones’ comments on supplements and protein being a waste. And looking back, all things being equal between Mentzer vs. Arnold or Boyer Coe – eg these guys were genetically gifted in their ability to grow larger muscles, were on steroids – clearly Mentzer’s diet allowed him to optimize his genetics without the high protein Arnold, for example, claimed in his book or magazine articles.

Also I remembered reading your interview from ~1 year ago:

There has been research—including one study from the University of Florida—showing that perhaps there are advantages for power athletes and bodybuilders to consume from 50 to 100 percent more protein than the RDA of 0.36 gram of protein per pound of body weight. I don’t buy into it—not completely, anyway. Here’s what I do believe about protein and muscle. Only intense exercise generates cellular messages (hormones) that stimulate the chemicals to begin the process of expanding muscle fibers. An excess of dietary protein or any other nutrients won’t generate these messages. Nutrition enters the picture only after the muscles are stimulated to grow. And even then, rest is at least as important as nutrition.

Plazma is specifically workout nutrition and should only be taken before/during weight training because it contains ingredients like citrulline and betaine to improve endurance, performance, and recovery.

Mag-10 is a more versatile fast-acting protein source and can be used post-workout, during cardio sessions, or between/in place of meals (I have a serving pretty much every night before bed).

You can get more specific advice about the supplements by posting in the Biotest Supplement Advice forum.

1 Like

I still feel that way about ordinary protein supplements, since they have to be digested and absorbed through the gut. Plazma and Mag-10 get in and out of the gut, without going through the normal processes. Within 15-20 minutes, the chemicals are in the working muscles.

Six months ago, I was very skeptical of Plazma and Mag-10. But I tried them both, as did my son Tyler. I was absolutely surprised by what I felt, saw, and experienced.

I’ve been using them for over six months and they are both excellent supplements.

2 Likes

Thanks for that, Chris! As a man with a budget, I wanted to try one of those. As I usually 1) don’t do endurance workouts and 2) have no trouble stoking myself up for my HIT/HDT workouts, I was already leaning towards Mag10. Thanks again for the brief, but informative explanation!
Scott

1 Like

Chris,

Is there a problem taking 1 serving of Mag-10, placing it in 8 ounces of cold water in a plastic shaker, adding some flavoring, mixing it up . . . and then drinking it? And repeating that several times a day?

I see the Plazma requires 1000 ml of water … where do you find a shaker bottle that holds that much ? Biggest ones I see max out at 700ml.

Biotest here on T-nation

1 Like

Yes they give you bottles big enough with it if you get the elite muscle kit

1 Like

Is there a small bottle equivalent for the opposite to elite trainees? Lucky loser muscle kit? LOL (Sorry, couldn’t help myself asking)

1 Like