Failing a Generation of American Boys...

So we agree an article that largely places the blame on women and women’s rights is pretty stupid and at best a waste of time considering the fact that both sexes and everyone’s rights are the thing to blame.

Glad we agree. I have been saying that since the first part of this thread I replied.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
…and “the men that refuse to take their place in the home, and take responsibility for their children.”[/quote]

Single Mothers are not equipped to be both the man and the woman for their children. They have to be the disciplinarian, and the comforter. Hard to do both.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

…I have a five year old son who is a “boy’s boy”. He likes trains, stepping in mud puddles, screaming at the top of his lungs, running until he drops, etc… I have had plenty of contact with his school now that he’s in kindergarten. At first they wanted to give him an IEP and put him in a special class! WTF!? I insisted he stay in the normal class and guess what? He’s doing just fine - imagine that. Fucking lazy liberal fuck-tard teachers who want everyone to just sit still in stupid circle… They’re KIDS…

[/quote]

This especially angers me. Infuriates.

[/quote]

I saw this a lot in my professional life. I still remember my first job as a school psychologist back in the early 1990’s. I could not believe how many boys were on Ritalin. I was just blown away. There was a lot of medicating boyness going on, and diagnosing boys with learning and behavioral problems, instead of seeing more active kids as part of the normal range of development for a large percentage of males.

Also, I saw a lot of problems that could have been solved with the simple solution of smaller class sizes. People wondering why kids are distracted and misbehaving when the teacher has 35 kids in the class. Our schools seem to have a hard time making small class sizes a priority in terms of spending.

I will say, the structure of the school day has really shifted, at least in our local schools. The elementary day for my kids is shorter than it was when I was a kid, by about 1.5 hours. As a result, kids have VERY little recess time. My daughter has to hurry to eat lunch so she can play for a few minutes. Thank the teacher’s unions. It would be better if kids had more time to run around and be outside being active. Kids need to move. Might help the obesity epidemic too. Just a hunch.


In terms of video games and the couch culture, some of this is due to a cultural shift. A lot of people have a distorted idea of the likelihood of child abduction. They don’t let their kids play outside anymore unsupervised. Some of this is due to fewer stay-at-home mom’s. Younger kids are in daycare after school because no one is home, and older kids are home but inside where it is “safe”. Summer vacation is filled with day camps. At least on our street, kids are all in structured programs after school and through the summer. I think most of my friends spend at least $1000 per summer on day camps, and these are families where one parent is at home most of the time. The neighborhood swimming pools will be empty on a hot summer day.

It’s partly a fear of predators, but also part of the race to nowhere. We must give our kids every opportunity to success by scheduling them into enrichment programs EVERY SPARE MINUTE. No down time to just go outside a build a fort, or ride your bike. I live in a very safe, low crime suburb, but often even older elementary aged kids are often not allowed to play outside on the courtyard with other kids. You go to the park a block away and parents are hovering. I think people WAY overestimate the likelihood of someone grabbing their kids. Maybe they feel like it is safer to have them inside playing video games.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I have a five year old son who is a “boy’s boy”. He likes trains, stepping in mud puddles, screaming at the top of his lungs, running until he drops, etc… I have had plenty of contact with his school now that he’s in kindergarten. At first they wanted to give him an IEP and put him in a special class! WTF!? I insisted he stay in the normal class and guess what? He’s doing just fine - imagine that. Fucking lazy liberal fuck-tard teachers who want everyone to just sit still in stupid circle… They’re KIDS.[/quote]

I can second (or third) this. It’s worse than just laziness. Schools get funding based on the achievement of ‘problem’ kids. You can’t label the best and brightest as problems, so you pick the best and brightest of the ones who can’t sit still, or pick their nose, or whatever…

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I heard a statistic the other day on a news radio station here in Houston. I did not verify it, but thought oh my Lord. This is from 20 years ago, and with the increase of unwed mothers increasing it is probably a higher percentage today. 80% of inmates come from single mother families.

.[/quote]

I’ve seen an expanded version of a similar study. Fatherless kids dominate basically all non-white collar criminal activity.

It is BRUTAL. The arson numbers were off the charts if I remember correctly.

[quote]lucasa wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I have a five year old son who is a “boy’s boy”. He likes trains, stepping in mud puddles, screaming at the top of his lungs, running until he drops, etc… I have had plenty of contact with his school now that he’s in kindergarten. At first they wanted to give him an IEP and put him in a special class! WTF!? I insisted he stay in the normal class and guess what? He’s doing just fine - imagine that. Fucking lazy liberal fuck-tard teachers who want everyone to just sit still in stupid circle… They’re KIDS.[/quote]

I can second (or third) this. It’s worse than just laziness. Schools get funding based on the achievement of ‘problem’ kids. You can’t label the best and brightest as problems, so you pick the best and brightest of the ones who can’t sit still, or pick their nose, or whatever…[/quote]

We’re so fucking medicated. We have a huge drug problem in the country and not an illegal one. Big pharma wants everyone taking legal drugs all day every day. Shit that used to be part of growing up is now a reason to get you hooked on something. You want to be normal? You gotta have this pill.

Don’t get me wrong, mental health is important and we probably used to not acknowledge a lot of problems that existed, but you CAN go too far in the other direction. Everyone in America shouldn’t need to be on drugs. We need help and a counselor for every skinned knee, sniffle, etc. It’s also why in my area the doctors offices are filled with the uninsured. Doesn’t cost them anything and they are hypochondriacs. I went to the doctor two years ago for a bad case of poison ivy (yes I went outside), and the nurse was borderline amazed I had insurance because so many people who came in to see her don’t.

[quote]H factor wrote:
Everyone in America shouldn’t need to be on drugs.
[/quote]

I agree, but it seems like school personell need to quantify their job, so they just keep adding ADD/HD to every child that can not sit still longer than one second.

My son picked up a stick the other day on the play ground and used it as a gun. OMG they taped it to a piece of paper and gave it to me when I picked him up. The teacher stated, this was unacceptable behavior. I stated, all boys do this. It is normal for his age. Boys play cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. Get over yourself.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Everyone in America shouldn’t need to be on drugs.
[/quote]

I agree, but it seems like school personell need to quantify their job, so they just keep adding ADD/HD to every child that can not sit still longer than one second.

My son picked up a stick the other day on the play ground and used it as a gun. OMG they taped it to a piece of paper and gave it to me when I picked him up. The teacher stated, this was unacceptable behavior. I stated, all boys do this. It is normal for his age. Boys play cops and robbers, cowboys and indians. Get over yourself.[/quote]

I don’t know that I’d blame school personnel for mental health diagnoses and prescription of medication. Schools don’t have anyone that can prescribe medication. I’d follow the money trail which leads right to drug companies/doctors.

[quote]H factor wrote:

We’re so fucking medicated.

We need help and a counselor for every skinned knee, sniffle, etc.

I went to the doctor two years ago for a bad case of poison ivy (yes I went outside),…
[/quote]

Sorry, as someone who spends lots of time outdoors and who is immune to the effects of poison ivy, I LOL’ed at this. I’ve seen some pretty bad cases and can sorta sympathize.

I would definitely agree that the schools f$ck kids in practice of medicine in general. And you certainly gotta scratch your head when you know the state taught you what a planaria was, but you had to teach yourself about removing stitches, drawing blood, caring for skin lesions, etc…

I kind of want children.

I feel though that the Machiavellian shit I had to pull off just to navigate boys beyond puperty might disrupt my whole city.

[quote]fncj wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Why are you blaming videogames?

They have been around for many years and are anything but the domain of losers, as you so put it. Violent video games play towards the instincts even if it is watered down violence.

I think you’ll find its the likes of emasculation that has made boys worse. Single parents, too many women in the school system, softly softly approach etc.

Then you have Justin Bieber who many boys look at and copy. He gets the girls.[/quote]

Instead of paraphrasing something I’ve already written, I’ll just re-post:

[quote]fncj wrote:
Much of what I’ve read of the ways video games damage men focuses on how they extend adolescence and prevent players from tackling real-world responsibilities. The time that could be spent deepening relationships, furthering one’s career and education, or simply engaging in a project of self improvement is instead diverted into a fantasy world where any type of momentum is applicable only within the game. So many video games represent insular pursuits that rarely enhance other aspects of a man’s life, and further teaches the mind to find satisfaction in imaginary accomplishments.[/quote]

Video games have been around for decades, but they have evolved to the point where games are now journeys which can last months, or game play is simply continuous. Games from fifteen and twenty years ago had a different impact because they could be played and finished in an afternoon. Beyond the hours a man has to dedicate to playing a lot of the games being currently released, other games have a way of increasing involvement with a social layer that adds a sense of responsibility towards a team.

The other points you brought up are excuses and ways to place blame. Not one of them represents an insurmountable obstacle that prevents men from being men. Misandry does exist, but I believe men and individuals are better served by looking at themselves to find a solution to problems.[/quote]

If you’re saying videogames are having a greater effect on people due to the enhanced design then that way of thinking is flawed.

People who reject society or who are rejected by it, girls and boys, like videogames because its a fantasy world they can revel in without consequence. I’ve played with these types of people in all sorts of games and not at any point did I see an emasculated individual.

Also I highlighted the women in schools because it fits the thread. Here in the UK there are fewer and fewer male teachers, role models if you like.

Then add into the equation the lack of a father in the home. Problem children exist in homes with both parents yes but I am speaking from experience here and other sources can back it up, too many women in a kids life and few male role models leads to confusion.

A man brings fear, testosterone, guidance and understanding. A woman brings calms but doesn’t really think like a man/boy so how can she guide him like a man could?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I heard a statistic the other day on a news radio station here in Houston. I did not verify it, but thought oh my Lord. This is from 20 years ago, and with the increase of unwed mothers increasing it is probably a higher percentage today. 80% of inmates come from single mother families.

.[/quote]

I’ve seen an expanded version of a similar study. Fatherless kids dominate basically all non-white collar criminal activity.

It is BRUTAL. The arson numbers were off the charts if I remember correctly. [/quote]

The family is the basic unit of society. When it falls apart, society will pay a price.

Related - Boys need male role models, but so do little girls. I read a statistic once about how men often feel like they are less important in raising daughters, so if there is a divorce, the father is less likely to stay involved. The girl has her mom to be a role model, and he perceives that isn’t needed as much as if there is a son so he’s less likely to stay involved.

This is not true. IMO, a father’s affection and love protects a young girl from seeking that elsewhere. Part of the young single mother problem. Maybe. And how will she know what a good man looks like, if she hasn’t seen how one treats her mother? An involved dad teaches her what to look for when they are trying to find a good man. I credit my relationship with my dad for helping me steer clear of a lot of the pitfalls in terms of relationships with men.


There aren’t easy answers to this, but some of these things have been circling in my head for awhile.

Quite a few of you have mentioned the negatives that have come out of the feminist movement. I’ll agree in part.

BUT - a lot of this stems also from the break down of the traditional family. Women are in many ways given a very confusing message. Imagine that you have a daughter. You know that she may not marry, maybe that opportunity won’t come so she’ll need to support herself through out her lifespan. If she marries and has children, she may end up divorced. Her husband could become disabled or die.

She NEEDS to be educated and be able to take care of herself EVEN if she would ideally like to marry and be at home raising kids. Maybe she’d like to be home raising children for 20 years of her life. It’s a very risky thing to do, to give up your career and earning potential for all of those years when your husband could leave you for a younger woman, after you’ve been home letting your resume collect dust. As Orion likes to point out, her sexual market value isn’t what it used to be. SO - What advice do you give your young daughter? And are we surprised that more women aren’t choosing a traditional role? Some of this could be better if there were less divorce, and less single motherhood.

AND there’s a very mixed message. Traditional women’s roles are not valued in our society. Women who decide to be primarily wives and homemakers describe themselves as “just a mom”. There is an underlying message that intelligent women would do more. That you are somehow not living up to your potential and “being all you can be” if you choose to stay home raising kids. - That this is a collection of menial tasks which we can pay a illiterate non-English speaker to do.

Sorry if this is a tangent, but I think it relates.

Raising kids in this country is changing. More of it is being outsourced to nannys, schools, daycares, etc…

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
As Orion likes to point out, her sexual market value isn’t what it used to be. SO - What advice do you give your young daughter?

[/quote]

See, that is not quite true.

Whithout wanting to be bothering you with statistics too much, men are left when the womens SMP is high, not the other way around.

Be that as it may, there is an article, about some 20 something PUAs, who talk to a 70 year old guy.

He tells them to pump and dump em sluts but to not disrespect his wife because she has the lines about her eyes because she laughed with him.

Her hands that might look haggard to any other men are beautiful to him because they caressed his children, her somewhat wrinkled lips where the first lips that kissed his children, her less than perfect breasts nourished his children, and that is what he sees.

However, if that is not what a woman wants to be, hell yes, I will not have any romantic lense that she has rejected, I will see her for what she fucking is, a depreciating asset.

Problem?

Actually he tells them to shut up and listen, and they do.

How is that for power and stuff?

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
If you’re saying videogames are having a greater effect on people due to the enhanced design then that way of thinking is flawed.

People who reject society or who are rejected by it, girls and boys, like videogames because its a fantasy world they can revel in without consequence. I’ve played with these types of people in all sorts of games and not at any point did I see an emasculated individual.

Also I highlighted the women in schools because it fits the thread. Here in the UK there are fewer and fewer male teachers, role models if you like.

Then add into the equation the lack of a father in the home. Problem children exist in homes with both parents yes but I am speaking from experience here and other sources can back it up, too many women in a kids life and few male role models leads to confusion.

A man brings fear, testosterone, guidance and understanding. A woman brings calms but doesn’t really think like a man/boy so how can she guide him like a man could?[/quote]

That part was in response to your statement that video games have been around for years, and I was simply bringing up that it is not an unchanged medium of entertainment. Again, games being released now have a different impact due to the increased number of hours required to complete a single campaign, and this level of dedication was not written into video games twenty years ago. With early generation Nintendo and Sega consoles a person could have spent hours playing games, but it would have been unheard of to spend four, or six, or more hours playing a single game with the intention of going back to it the next day to play for just as long. However, this behavior is commonplace with ‘gamers’, people whose identities revolve around the activity.

There are plenty of individuals who enjoy video games recreationally, though they typically aren’t the subjects when the topic is brought up of how game play can be detrimental. The subjects are those whose game play prevents them from taking on real-world responsibilities, or brings them to a point where they’re not even thinking of real-world pursuits. Whether it is video games or another activity, if it causes a person’s life to stagnate and affects interpersonal relationships and self development, then it presents a problem.

People will often think of emasculation and get the idea its completely related to feminization. They’re not the same thing, but when they are equated it makes it difficult to recognize other forms of emasculation when we see it. The biggest problems seen in the behaviors of ‘emasculated’ men aren’t the result of them taking on the characteristics of women, but instead stem from an inability to act on or properly channel masculine traits and impulses. TC Luoma gives examples of how masculinity and our view of manhood influence behavior in his article The Anti-Pussification Program, but suffice to say as men, we create a range of issues when we take a neutral stance in expressing certain traits or when we allow those traits to control us. To keep this germane, the sex-and-violence related profanities and intentions screamed to strangers by preteen boys during games are examples of improperly channeled aggression. If they have male role models in their lives, they certainly aren’t spending enough time with them to learn that line of thinking is not okay.

I’m sure it was not your intention, but your second paragraph is an example of the neutral stance. When someone rejects society or feels rejected by it and then chooses to escape into a “fantasy world they can revel in without consequence”, they are showing a failure to rise to challenges. You described a man running away from the world, when he should have embarked on a journey of self discovery, improvement, and carving out a niche for himself so he can face that world with confidence. A person with a handle on manhood would have done something - anything - to shape his own world. You wrote that you’ve never seen an emasculated individual when you play video games, but if the reason given is why they play, then you have.