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Failed PCT - Getting Off TRT for Fertility Purposes

Hey guys,

I’ll try to keep this short not to overwhelm with a lot of info. I can add more if anyone asks otherwise it would be a wall of text.

I started TRT in July 2019 because of low T ( varying from lowest 2.1 to 4.1 ng / ml the highest tested during the course of 3 years ) and low libido / ED / lack of energy.

Before getting on it, I did a sperm freeze ( 21 million ) since I want to have kids in the future.

Started at 100mg / week just T enanthate. Symptoms improved mostly apart from ED which was better but not totally cured.

Fast forward, I changed doctors since the one following me was unavailable and I found a very good doctor in Greece specialising in TRT ( and being on it himself for years ).

When he saw the spermiogram of the frozen sample he said it wasn’t optimal so suggested we add HCG to the protocol to raise it and do a better freeze. He saw a previous one from a couple years ago which was at 65 million so thought we should be able to reach that.

In the next three months we tweaked it constantly by increasing HCG up to 1500 IU 3x a week plus later for one month adding HMG 75IU 3x a week in addition to zinc / proviron and dhea.

After 3 months the best we could get was 11 million ( still not enough ). So then I made the decision to try to get off TRT for a while till I get a decent sample frozen and then back on it for life.

At that point we started a protocol like this:
After the last T shot, for the first two weeks , 1500 IU HCG 3x a week and 75IU HMG.
The third and forth week, 25mg Clomid along with 10mg Nolvadex every day.

So after one month I went in and did the hormones lab tests and spermiogram again. While the spermiogram improved ( 14 mill compared to 11 mill two weeks before ) the HPTA recovery was pretty bad , posting numbers below :

Needless to say with a total T of 1.1 I feel like shit but still down to sacrifice a few months of misery is there is any chance of fertility recovering and test going up by a bit.

My doctor suggested if I want to keep going on trying, I should switch now for the next 2 weeks to clomid alone EOD 25mgs, re-test in 2 weeks and act based on results.

So what do you think of the protocol so far and from your experience, is there any real chance of recovery.

Thanks!

Thats a shit load of HCG. Honestly ive never heard of someone coming off TRT just to have kids. Just because the sperm count is not perfect does not mean you will not have children. I would not make my life miserable trying to get off trt. I would stay on TRT and keep using HCG and continue try having children. At the same time I would make sure my wife hormones are optimal.

Just because all hormones and health are in line for a child does not mean you will have a child. Some people spend years trying *(while totally health) and never have a child. Others dont seem very healthy and they have a child in the first few months of trying. Its a roll of the dice. For those who believe in god, they’ll say it only happens when god wants it to happen.

I wouldn’t bang my head on the wall. End of day you might want to try IVF if you really want it now and can’t wait till it happens naturally.

I thin your doctors trying to force this pregnancy and you are his guinea pig and thats just painful.

Any legit doctor will tell you TRT + HCG works.

Thanks for the reply!

I am not trying to have a child now since I don’t have a partner. The goal is be to freeze a decent sample that would give me high probability of having a kid in the future.

My doctor did what you suggested, added HCG while on TRT but in 3 months, even at high doses it didn’t work. That’s why I had the idea of trying to stop it for a bit to help the recovery of fertility.

I also believe I have used very high doses of HCG so my LH receptors might have been desensitised and need time to recover reacting to LH signals accordingly ( hence the super low T on the last reading ).

Ok that is very odd. Look around the internet and you will see that the majority of folks who start HCG while on TRT have children. They don’t count sperm and etc. They just have the kids. I wouldn’t worry about it and go through hell to reach a magical number the sick care doctor has in his head.

The next tool in the tool box if having problems with sperm production if HCG and FSH, afterall FSH is what stimulates sperm production.

Your doc should be trying FSH next. It directly stimulates sperm production whereas HCG has to go through several other steps to get there.

Ie it’s better at it. The downside is it isn’t cheap. If fsh doesn’t work, highly unlikely getting off TRT will help either IMO

Isn’t HMG basically FSH + LH analogues combined?

I tried them combined for one month and while it improved it, it still didn’t get to a decent level.

I’ve read papers that sometimes it takes from a few months to 2 years of high doses of HCG and HMG combined to bring to an acceptable level:

My question atm is, how long does it usually take after PCT to start seeing things going back to the previous baseline?

Thanks for the replies so far.

Anyone here that did a PCT recently and can chime in how long it took for things to restart?

The question you have to ask yourself is are you getting more FSH out of your pituitary using the HMG, if not then injecting FSH circumvents that little problem.

Good question. That’s what Im trying to test by doing this PCT plus I’ve used too much HCG so I want my receptors to get back to normal sensitivity. I guess that’s the main reason my test is so low now.

Before starting TRT I had good results with just Clomid so I think it should be enough to stimulate FSH and LH. Here are the results of my 3 months using Clomid ( starting at 50mg EOD for a month and tapering down to every two days and three days the second and third month ).

lab tests

@rimseb
Go on YouTube and look up “Ask the Anabolic Doc”. It’s a radio show hosted by Dr O’Conner aka The Anabolic Doc. He specializes in making guys fertile again after being on testosterone. He has certain episodes devoted to how he does it along with actual dosages of drugs etc

Thanks, much appreciated! Going to watch now.

You can also contact him if need be and (for a fee) have him walk you through what you should do. I’ve never talked to the guy but I know one of his patients and he was a harder than normal case to say the least and was able to get fertile again.

If he offers that service, it’s perfect.

Instead of me trying to re-invent the wheel it’s much better if I talk to him directly.

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Ok another update after two weeks.

The last two weeks ( week 5 and 6 ) I went from 25 clomid 10 nolva ED to just 25 clomid EOD.

While the sperm analysis went down from 14 mill to 10 mill ( I guess because of stopping HMG and HCG plus two weeks is too soon anyway) hormones look a bit better. Should I tapper down clomid to once every three days and see if the restart worked to keep at least decent levels of T?

8 apr psa 8 april

Another update. Now I’ve to decide between these two possible options how to continue ( after talking with my doctor ) :

1 - Drop Clomid and everything else and see how the HPTA stands on it’s own and if it can recover. Do labs in two weeks and move from there.

2- Try to boost the sperm production by taking 150IU HCG a day and 75IU 3x / week for two months, along with 800 IU vit E and 50 grams Zinc

Thoughts?