T Nation

Failed Cycle


#1

Long time lurker. Maybe 6 or 7 years worth of training and reading. Stats are 6 feet 210lbs low bodyfat but no idea of the percent. This was my second cycle. My first was
test prop 100mgs eod
mast prop 100mgs eod
Adex .5mgs eod

Pct was hcg clomid and nolva. Hcg for the first week then just clomid and nolva. It went fine.

It lasted eight weeks with 4 weeks pct. No issues no sides just good gains.

For my second cycle I tried sustanon 350 twice a week with mast enanthate 200 twice a week. Axed dose was the same. After my first shot my prostate began to hurt and I was peeing several times a night. After the second shot it got worse. I ordered finasteride and got it in 2 days.

Here's my questions. Is it too late to combat the prostate issues with the fin? Is this cycle a failure or can I salvage it? Ive read a lot about prostate growth on cycle and I'm not sure if its too late or not. I feel like I don't have enough aas in my system to provide benefits or to allow sufficient recovery at this point. Total waste of money or what? Thanks guys.

I feel like I dropped the ball.


#2

IIRC, your BPH reverses post cycle… how bad does it “hurt”? I urinate quite frequently but my prostate has never hurt even on 2 grams of test…


#3

yeah I’ve heard that the prostate issues will reverse once you come off

if they don’t though, looks like you’re going to have to go to the Dr for a fingering…


#4

I urinate more on cycle then usual, but it never hurts.


#5

Is your prostate enlarged?
Do you have any flu like symptoms?
Does it burn when you pee? Do you have problem peeing (as in low urine flow)?
Do you have stomach pain?

No matter your answers to the above, my advice is not to take finasteride. Your problem could be prostatitis or BPH or something else.
BPH is caused by excess E2 in the presence of excess DHT (contrary to popular belief) so IMO up your adex a a little instead.

Cycle shouldn’t be a failure. Pin Sust more frequently (EOD at least) and up your Adex. If the problem exists and is unbearable I’d say then switch to something like Test E 500mg/W.


#6

[quote]AnabolicMelvin wrote:
Is your prostate enlarged?
Do you have any flu like symptoms?
Does it burn when you pee? Do you have problem peeing (as in low urine flow)?
Do you have stomach pain?

No matter your answers to the above, my advice is not to take finasteride. Your problem could be prostatitis or BPH or something else.
BPH is caused by excess E2 in the presence of excess DHT (contrary to popular belief) so IMO up your adex a a little instead.

Cycle shouldn’t be a failure. Pin Sust more frequently (EOD at least) and up your Adex. If the problem exists and is unbearable I’d say then switch to something like Test E 500mg/W.[/quote]
No to the other symptoms outside of peeing a lot and weak stream. Its the urge that is hard to live with. I wont take the fin thank you. I understand it lowers androgens anyways. I know test e is a slower burner than sust but would that really make a difference? I’m not questioning you just trying to educate myself so I don’t do this to myself again. Ill bump up axed to. 5 ed can I go higher or is that pointles? Thanks again for the reply.


#7

[quote]rchurchill33 wrote:

[quote]AnabolicMelvin wrote:
Is your prostate enlarged?
Do you have any flu like symptoms?
Does it burn when you pee? Do you have problem peeing (as in low urine flow)?
Do you have stomach pain?

No matter your answers to the above, my advice is not to take finasteride. Your problem could be prostatitis or BPH or something else.
BPH is caused by excess E2 in the presence of excess DHT (contrary to popular belief) so IMO up your adex a a little instead.

Cycle shouldn’t be a failure. Pin Sust more frequently (EOD at least) and up your Adex. If the problem exists and is unbearable I’d say then switch to something like Test E 500mg/W.[/quote]
No to the other symptoms outside of peeing a lot and weak stream. Its the urge that is hard to live with. I wont take the fin thank you. I understand it lowers androgens anyways. I know test e is a slower burner than sust but would that really make a difference? I’m not questioning you just trying to educate myself so I don’t do this to myself again. Ill bump up axed to. 5 ed can I go higher or is that pointles? Thanks again for the reply.[/quote]

test E is not a “slower burner”… it’s more stable because it’s only one ester… I pin all esters ED so it doesn’t really matter but most people don’t. Like Melvin said, you have to get your E under control, I would up the adex to .5mg ED like he suggested and keep it there until symptoms subside… if they don’t, I would invest in better adex as yours would likely be underdosed


#8

[quote]rchurchill33 wrote:
Long time lurker. Maybe 6 or 7 years worth of training and reading. Stats are 6 feet 210lbs low bodyfat but no idea of the percent. This was my second cycle. My first was
test prop 100mgs eod
mast prop 100mgs eod
Adex .5mgs eod

Pct was hcg clomid and nolva. Hcg for the first week then just clomid and nolva. It went fine.

It lasted eight weeks with 4 weeks pct. No issues no sides just good gains.

For my second cycle I tried sustanon 350 twice a week with mast enanthate 200 twice a week. Axed dose was the same. After my first shot my prostate began to hurt and I was peeing several times a night. After the second shot it got worse. I ordered finasteride and got it in 2 days.

Here’s my questions. Is it too late to combat the prostate issues with the fin? Is this cycle a failure or can I salvage it? Ive read a lot about prostate growth on cycle and I’m not sure if its too late or not. I feel like I don’t have enough aas in my system to provide benefits or to allow sufficient recovery at this point. Total waste of money or what? Thanks guys.

I feel like I dropped the ball.[/quote]

Increase your arimidex to the point where your joints hurt and you feel lethargic. Try to take the minimum needed to feel these sides. Then cut back your dose until you start to feel normal. Estrogen exaggerates prostate issues. And its hard to tell if you have it under control without bloodwork. Overdosing Adex a little and then cutting back to find your sweet spot is IMO the best way.


#9

Ill try upping adex to 1 Mg a day. Ill switch to test e 250 twice a week. Thanks guys keepnthe good info commingled.


#10

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]rchurchill33 wrote:

[quote]AnabolicMelvin wrote:
Is your prostate enlarged?
Do you have any flu like symptoms?
Does it burn when you pee? Do you have problem peeing (as in low urine flow)?
Do you have stomach pain?

No matter your answers to the above, my advice is not to take finasteride. Your problem could be prostatitis or BPH or something else.
BPH is caused by excess E2 in the presence of excess DHT (contrary to popular belief) so IMO up your adex a a little instead.

Cycle shouldn’t be a failure. Pin Sust more frequently (EOD at least) and up your Adex. If the problem exists and is unbearable I’d say then switch to something like Test E 500mg/W.[/quote]
No to the other symptoms outside of peeing a lot and weak stream. Its the urge that is hard to live with. I wont take the fin thank you. I understand it lowers androgens anyways. I know test e is a slower burner than sust but would that really make a difference? I’m not questioning you just trying to educate myself so I don’t do this to myself again. Ill bump up axed to. 5 ed can I go higher or is that pointles? Thanks again for the reply.[/quote]

test E is not a “slower burner”… it’s more stable because it’s only one ester… I pin all esters ED so it doesn’t really matter but most people don’t. Like Melvin said, you have to get your E under control, I would up the adex to .5mg ED like he suggested and keep it there until symptoms subside… if they don’t, I would invest in better adex as yours would likely be underdosed[/quote]

This is a great approach to combat any high E2 related sides IMO.


#11

So ill give it a few days at 1mg of axed a day before I take my next shot. If the symptoms do persist ill likely stop and take it as a sign that I’m either incompatible with aas or just too uneducated at this point to continue. If they do subside ill shoot test e 250 and see if the symptoms come back.

I am not using finasteride at this point. I read a lot of contradicting information about its use being detrimental and possibly causing long term side effects. I have no balding or balding genes so I hope my prostate can do without it.


#12

You could try taking a prostate support vitamin


#13

I’m currently trying 2 different otc prostate support vitamins.

I guess my main question is and was “can I get the symptoms to subside WHILST continuing my cycle or would I have to come off, wait for the prostate to shrink, and then start again with higher adex dose”?

I feel like if I have to come off to get rid of the problem then I likely wont start another cycle. I’m not the type of person to repeat the same process multiple times expecting to get different results. If this is just how my body responds to aas then aas probably isn’t for me.


#14

Doesn’t seem like you fucking get the point man. Stay on the cycle, same doses, same pinning schedule, etc and just up your Adex and give it time. Give it more than just a few days and see how things turn out. Stop freakin the fuck out and only change one thing at a time. Not sure what your lifestyle is but never seen anyone so worried about a weak stream and frequent bathroom visits.


#15

Thank you for being straight with me. I am going to stay on with test e 250 probably 2 or three shots a week. If I cant use masteron, which I don’t know to be true, thenni will bring the test up. If I can use masteron then ill do 500 test e and 300 for the mast.

Adex is still at 1mg a day. No more symptoms.


#16

The lethargy and joint pain crept up on me. I dropped adex to .75mgs a day.


#17

I had a question for Mr walkway regarding pinning all ester’s every day. Ive seen people argue over it but I never understood. If you could explain to me how and why one would pin test e every day.


#18

[quote]rchurchill33 wrote:
I had a question for Mr walkway regarding pinning all ester’s every day. Ive seen people argue over it but I never understood. If you could explain to me how and why one would pin test e every day. [/quote]

I’m not Walkway (oh, how I wish I was) but the idea is that you get more stable blood levels and so less sides


#19

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]rchurchill33 wrote:
I had a question for Mr walkway regarding pinning all ester’s every day. Ive seen people argue over it but I never understood. If you could explain to me how and why one would pin test e every day. [/quote]

I’m not Walkway (oh, how I wish I was) but the idea is that you get more stable blood levels and so less sides[/quote]

this


#20

If there’s a better pinning frequency than what I’m doing then id like to know about it. So you just shoot less but on a daily basis? Most guys to to consolidate all thair injections to one or two days.