Fahrenheit 9-11

Didn’t Moore actually come out and say he doesn’t make documentaries, he makes “movies”?

It’s a “movie”. It doesn’t have to have any truth in it. It doesn’t have be truthful any more than “Spiderman 2” or the “Passion of the Christ” have to be truthful.

Now if you want to question his motives for mixing fact and fiction, that’s another issue.

Rainjack, I really don’t know his motivations. I haven’t spent any time trying to research his motivations. If his motivations are to point out things that he feels wrong with the US now, so that they can be improved, then he isn’t anti-american per se.

If however, he is against democracy, freedom of speech and doesn’t believe in things like the concept of being innocent until proven guilty, then I’d tend to agree with your viewpoint of his stance. If he is really lying and twising the truth then he’d probably be acting as a politician (of either stripe) more so than anything else.

Is that reasonably fair?

This next part is not directed at you or anyone in particular, so please don’t take offense…

I don’t know what anyone else is doing, but I’m not looking down my nose at anyone. However, if someone isn’t capable of or isn’t willing to think about important issues then it’s safe to say they will have that pointed out to them when they post something ludicrous.

Don’t like the taste of feet? Quit sticking your foot in your mouth.

Don’t like your viewpoint criticized? Learn to support you viewpoint with actual reasoning instead of quoting twisted truths put out there for you to believe.

Don’t like liberals? Learn to make an argument and convince them that what you are saying is correct. Liberals will often actually listen to a good argument if you have one.

By the way, yes, I really do lift. I’m no superman, but I’m getting leaner and even did a PR on my deadlift last night. I’m not just hanging out here for political discussion… its a way to pass time waiting for the next issue or next workout. Whether or not I’ve disagreed with you (anyone) during a political dicussion, even if you’ve called me plenty of names, I have no ill will because of it.

Now, on with the regularly scheduled bashing!

“I hear Fidel Castro is having some trouble - why don’t you upstanding Americans/Canadians go give him some support?”

—>Better yet, why don’t we invade Cuba and install a democratic regime!

Do you mean like John Kennedy tried to do in Cuba? Or maybe like the piece of shit murderer Aristide that Ted Kennedy and the boys promoted to take over in Haiti? Or maybe Lyndon Johnson in Vietnam?

Rainjack
I don’t hate Bush or anybody else! True, I don’t like what he has done to our country. Maybe somewhere between in the middle of Michael Stivic and Archie Bunker is what we should be shooting for! Oh, yeah rain my man, if I wear sandals you’re wearing jackboots! About the rifle comment lighten up you big tuff liberal hater, I myself own many hunting rifles, it was a joke!

What he did with “Roger and Me” was something a lot of people could stand behind.

But now he’s just embarrasing. Especially since he’s from Michigan originally.

RSU -

You need to re-read your cohorts’ prior posts. They are the ones crying about how there is no free speech for them. Now I am paraphrasing, but that is the general feeling I get from reading their posts. My comments are wrt those statements.

The problem is not the movie. If its a funny little comedic jest at the pres, so be it (see the Daily Show). The problem is that he has completely thrown any semblance of academic rigor out the window, has forged sources, and yet tries to make the ‘documentary’ come off as fact. Thats dangerous. If viewers understood that it was pure fiction and nothing more than propaganda it would be fine but its not.

One of the Congressman down the hall from me was interviewed for the movie at a political function. MM asked him “do you think its right that all you elected officials are sending troops to die and none of your family ever has to fight.” The politician responded by saying “Well actually, my son is in iraq, my other son is in afghanistan, and two of my cousins are in training as we speak.” MM obviously stupified more than his usual self, sat there speechless. This same republican politician was actually put in the print ad for Farhenheit 911, and yet somehow I those comments from him while never appear in the movie, while soem other politician who has no family members fighting will. WHY? because it doesnt fit the progaganda that MM is trying to get out there.

Michael Moore is like a witness that has bad credibility. Forget whether he is left, right, or in-between: he is a demonstrable liar. His ability to produce a documentary is absolutely laughable.

Nothing wrong with being politically opinionated and taking a point of view, but Moore is a propagandist plain and simple.

And, might I add, not that clever or entertaining. His material is trite, predictable, and uneducated.

As such, I vote with my dollars, and I only have so many dollars, so an effete putz like Moore won’t see another dollar from me to pay for his ‘working-class’ million dollar property in choice Manhattan after the nonsense of BFC.

And for the vacuous ‘well, his films make you think’ defense - this is weak, the side of a cereal box ‘makes me think’.

I really don’t know what ‘jackboots’ are, but that’s a good comeback.

I’m out for the day - you and your little friends can take pot shots at me, unabated.

RSU -
In spite of what you may think, or in your case, know - I love this shit. If it weren’t for all this name calling and heated discussion we engage in here, I’d have to keep my mouth shut all day long(insert your best comeback to that right here).

Rainjack “I hear Fidel Castro is having some trouble - why don’t you upstanding Americans/Canadians go give him some support?”

Rainjack I would like to hear what you actually know about Fidel Castro…please, surprise me, it will make my day.

I think he has a right to make release the movie. I do not agree with his stance, and I do not feel that it will be unbiased. I wish there was some way to get the facts without it being skewed one way or the other. In my opinion he should not be allowed to release this movie during an election year.

Me Solomon Grundy

Soloman: Sure. He can’t release a movie like this during an election year. That’s fine as long as you get Rush and have him stuff a sock in his pill-popping gullet until January.

Kinda like the Bush admin and the case of WMD’s no?

Rainjack - M Moore is a US citizen. Therefore if you hate him you are anti-american.

Against freedom Solomon? Another anti-american…

This amount of hypocrisy is disturbing. M Moore is using the same tools and tactics that politicians and governments use every day. Come on, at least attack his actual arguments and not his methods.

How can we believe anything he says when we know for a fact that he has lied about something pretty big? didnt jason blair get in trouble for doing the same thing?

Thats different than the misleading that many claim bush and others have done. This is straight up lieing.

Holy shit a Michael Moore thread let the flames begin. I, haven’t seen farenheit 9/11, I don’t think anyone has, so I can not speak for what is truth and what is lies. I have seen Bowling for Columbine and did enjoy it for the most part, the end started to drag a little, and I wasn’t agreeing with all the things that he was trying to connect. For all of those that claim Michael Moore is a liar, what false statements were in BFC(I am not saying their isn’t any, I would actually like to know). I think we all can agree that MM knows how to sell movies/books, I am sure this one will do good also.

The lact of any pesky reality in any of his films is easy to validate. Just type his movie names in the old web browser and check out what you find.

Rainjack – when you find them calling you names, that means you have won.

What a horseshit world of relativism you liberals live in.

Any SouthPark watchers here? Based on his Memorial Day post and now this one, I think Tumor and his good buddy Michael Moore are in danger of being abducted by aliens for a very special awards show.

Remember folks, liberalism stands for everything is OK except for having an opinion that differs from ours.

LMFAO.

Be carefull Lucid, I might just agree with you.

Me Solomon Grundy

Pansy you wrote
Rainjack – when you find them calling you names, that means you have won.

Take a look at all the names Michael Moore was called on this thread. Does that mean he won?
I don’t support M.M. just pointing out your own logic!

I don’t know… the amount of stink being raised is amazing. Maybe I’ll have to go see it and see what the fuss is about.

It’s a movie. What has truth or reality got to do with a movie? Little things like truth and reality aren’t even adhered to in the political arena, why should the entertainment arena be held to a higher standard?

I think we just have a bunch of people with their panties in a bunch because they don’t like what it is likely to be saying about their beloved leader.

Wauuuuugh. Stop making fun of my beliefs…