T Nation

F*** Letro


#1

Just thought I'd share my recent gyno revelation with you guys.

So I have pre-existing gyno lumps in both nips. Both tiny, and not visible even when single digit bodyfat (never been contest lean but I doubt they'd even be visible then, seriously, the lumps are tiny).

Lefty lump is from E rebound I had a few months after a botched cycle (fucking NPP messed me up so bad) and righty is from fucking anadrol smashing my face in.

Both times I shrank the lump by nuking it with letro. We're talking months at 2.5mg day, fucking my libido, joints, and - in my opinion - ruining my cycle.

The cycle I'm currently on is 250mg test eod with 50mg dbol. For the first time ever I decided to use aromasin as my AI. Well, 12.5mg/day wasn't enough and overnight my gyno plumped right up.

Instead of destroying myself with letro, I added 40mg nolva and doubled my aromasin to 25mg.

5 days later, and the lump has shrunk considerably. No low E symptoms, feelin' fine.

So the point of this thread is just to tell y'all that you don't necessarily have to smash yourself into bits with letro when you get a gyno flare up. Increasing your AI and running some nolva might do it.

I'm not saying it definitely WILL, just that it did for me, and it might for you.

Y'all have a super day, now.


#2

Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks!


#3

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks![/quote]

yeah man, when you actually dig into it there’s a LOT of science showing how effective nolva is at reducing gyno lumps. Makes you wonder why we’re all so quick to letro ourselves into oblivion when there’s a gentler, potentially more effective option.


#4

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks![/quote]

yeah man, when you actually dig into it there’s a LOT of science showing how effective nolva is at reducing gyno lumps. Makes you wonder why we’re all so quick to letro ourselves into oblivion when there’s a gentler, potentially more effective option.[/quote]

Would you say nolva affected your cycle in any negative ways?


#5

Yes, driving estradiol extremely low has always been a bad idea.


#6

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks![/quote]

yeah man, when you actually dig into it there’s a LOT of science showing how effective nolva is at reducing gyno lumps. Makes you wonder why we’re all so quick to letro ourselves into oblivion when there’s a gentler, potentially more effective option.[/quote]

Would you say nolva affected your cycle in any negative ways?
[/quote]

hard to say, mostly as I’ve only been using it for a week.

I can’t imagine it would, though. I know there’s been studies which have shown that it lowers IGF-1 by up to 16% (if I remember rightly) but I doubt that’s much of a concern when you’re on cycle.

In any case, even if muscle gains are hampered slightly, I’d happily trade a couple of pounds of tissue if it meant no gyno!


#7

Farewell cycle? If I remember correctly, you were gonna hang up your syringes soon.

Just face it, you can’t resist sexy times.


#8

[quote]Steez wrote:
Farewell cycle? If I remember correctly, you were gonna hang up your syringes soon.

Just face it, you can’t resist sexy times.[/quote]

haha, it has been a good cycle, and has got me thinking impure thoughts!

I dunno, man. Maybe at the start of next year I’ll try out going up to a gram a week of pharm grade test and see what that’s like…


#9

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks![/quote]

yeah man, when you actually dig into it there’s a LOT of science showing how effective nolva is at reducing gyno lumps. Makes you wonder why we’re all so quick to letro ourselves into oblivion when there’s a gentler, potentially more effective option.[/quote]

Would you say nolva affected your cycle in any negative ways?
[/quote]

hard to say, mostly as I’ve only been using it for a week.

I can’t imagine it would, though. I know there’s been studies which have shown that it lowers IGF-1 by up to 16% (if I remember rightly) but I doubt that’s much of a concern when you’re on cycle.

In any case, even if muscle gains are hampered slightly, I’d happily trade a couple of pounds of tissue if it meant no gyno![/quote]

yeah, i think all of the SERMs and AI’s lower IGF-1 a bit… but androgens increase IGF-1, so like you said, it shouldn’t be a big deal on cycle…


#10

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Good to know. It is always nice when people share their experiences like this. Too often the problem is posted with possible solutions but we don’t get to see the end. Thanks![/quote]

yeah man, when you actually dig into it there’s a LOT of science showing how effective nolva is at reducing gyno lumps. Makes you wonder why we’re all so quick to letro ourselves into oblivion when there’s a gentler, potentially more effective option.[/quote]

Would you say nolva affected your cycle in any negative ways?
[/quote]

hard to say, mostly as I’ve only been using it for a week.

I can’t imagine it would, though. I know there’s been studies which have shown that it lowers IGF-1 by up to 16% (if I remember rightly) but I doubt that’s much of a concern when you’re on cycle.

In any case, even if muscle gains are hampered slightly, I’d happily trade a couple of pounds of tissue if it meant no gyno![/quote]

yeah, i think all of the SERMs and AI’s lower IGF-1 a bit… but androgens increase IGF-1, so like you said, it shouldn’t be a big deal on cycle…[/quote]

aye that’s what I was thinking. I’m still gaining, so I don’t think low IGF-1 is much of a concern


#11

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:
Farewell cycle? If I remember correctly, you were gonna hang up your syringes soon.

Just face it, you can’t resist sexy times.[/quote]

haha, it has been a good cycle, and has got me thinking impure thoughts!

I dunno, man. Maybe at the start of next year I’ll try out going up to a gram a week of pharm grade test and see what that’s like…[/quote]

Nice! I’ve yet to sample anything. Being patient. Really honing in my diet and training. Probably the end of the year.


#12

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:
Farewell cycle? If I remember correctly, you were gonna hang up your syringes soon.

Just face it, you can’t resist sexy times.[/quote]

haha, it has been a good cycle, and has got me thinking impure thoughts!

I dunno, man. Maybe at the start of next year I’ll try out going up to a gram a week of pharm grade test and see what that’s like…[/quote]

Nice! I’ve yet to sample anything. Being patient. Really honing in my diet and training. Probably the end of the year. [/quote]

cool, well make sure you do it right! You’ve been around here long enough to know the do’s and do not do’s of steroid use!


#13

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Steez wrote:
Farewell cycle? If I remember correctly, you were gonna hang up your syringes soon.

Just face it, you can’t resist sexy times.[/quote]

haha, it has been a good cycle, and has got me thinking impure thoughts!

I dunno, man. Maybe at the start of next year I’ll try out going up to a gram a week of pharm grade test and see what that’s like…[/quote]

Nice! I’ve yet to sample anything. Being patient. Really honing in my diet and training. Probably the end of the year. [/quote]

cool, well make sure you do it right! You’ve been around here long enough to know the do’s and do not do’s of steroid use![/quote]

Yeah that’s the plan. Doing it right, making good gains and keeping them. I’m just fortunate that I was wise enough to wait and be patient over the years. I see too many uneduacted kids throwing these drugs into them like it’s nothing.

Thanks to many members, including yourself, I’ve learned a lot over recent months. I don’t know why individuals are so proud on the internet, always defending themselves like they’re never wrong or stupid, yet we see it everyday.

Good luck with the rest of your cycle. And thanks for sharing your experiences.


#14

Read on another website the guys on TRT + Nolva (not sure how much)had healthier testes and higher sperm count than without.


#15

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:
Read on another website the guys on TRT + Nolva (not sure how much)had healthier testes and higher sperm count than without.[/quote]

if you could post links on the topic I’d appreciate it.

I’ve heard of guys using clomid on cycle to preserve their baws but never nolva.


#16

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]nocoolnick wrote:
Read on another website the guys on TRT + Nolva (not sure how much)had healthier testes and higher sperm count than without.[/quote]

if you could post links on the topic I’d appreciate it.

I’ve heard of guys using clomid on cycle to preserve their baws but never nolva.[/quote]

http://www.ergo-log.com/tamoxandriol.html

http://ergo-log.com/antioestrogensolder.html