T Nation

F#%k this Shit. I'm Outt'a Here!

Succession is in the air!

With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/14/2012 18:47 -0500

Ben Bernanke None Ron Paul

With just 5 days needed for the Texas secession petition to surpass 100,000 signatories, all is not well with the Union…

… actually, not only are things not well with the Union, things are getting worse by the minute, as American society splinters into diametrical opposites to a degree not seen in decades, a process which in itself virtually assures there will be no cliff compromise before the opportunity cost of ending the stand off becomes far too great. And with the option of the Mr. Chairman “getting to work” to fix things, one wonders - is even the market a motivating enough factor given a 20, 30 or even 50% drop in the rearview mirror: after all as the Fed has demonstrated, there is no need for a fiscal compromise to get the S&P to just shy of all time highs. Certainly, even America’s politicians are very much aware of this by now (of course, this assumes that Bernanke is still in charge of the market: something we have claimed for two months is very much in question).

Regardless, with the topic of secession on everybody’s lips, here is what none other than Ron Paul has said about this suddenly very volatile issue.

Ron Paul: Secession Is an American Principle

Ron Paul: This weekend I got a couple of calls from the media asking me questions about Rick Perry, our governor here in Texas and the statements he made about possible secession. Now, he didnâ??t call for secession, but he was restating a principle that was long held and at least in the original time of our country, and that is that there was a right to secession.

Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Since the Civil War, itâ??s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. â??This is un-Americanâ??, I heard one individual say, â??This is treasonous to even talk about it.â??

Well, they donâ??t know their history very well because if they think about it, itâ??s an American tradition. Itâ??s very American to talk about secession. Thatâ??s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.

What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, â??Oh no. Secession is treasonousâ??.

No. Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. Itâ??s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something thatâ??s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.

Just remember one of the reasons that Wilson drove us in unnecessarily into World War I. He talked about what we have to give, have every country in the world the benefit of self-determination, a good principle. Of course, I donâ??t think he really believed that. But self-determination is a good principle. Itâ??s a very American principle, so to me itâ??s a shame that we canâ??t discuss this.

You know, itâ??s interesting that so many of us have been taught for so many years, and as long as I can remember from the first grade on up taking the pledge of allegiance that we have a republic thatâ??s â??indivisibleâ?? and we have been preached that and preached it. So therefore, there is no contest, no question since the Civil War that we have even the thought that this could happen.

But you know what a lot of people donâ??t talk about and they really donâ??t even know about is who wrote the pledge to the flag. The pledge to the flag came from, for instance, Bellamy, an avowed Socialist who wanted to put into concrete in the pledge this principle of being indivisible, and he did it, you know, for the celebration ironically 400 years of the celebration of the landing of Christopher Columbus, so it was in 1892.

I mean, the pledge of allegiance has not been here, you know, all our history. So I think itâ??s worth of discussion. I think people should discuss this because right now, the American people are sick and tired of it all and I think the time will come when people will consider it much more seriously is when the federal government can no longer deliver. That time will come when the dollar collapses.

No matter what they do and how many promises they have and how many bailouts they have, they canâ??t do it if the money doesnâ??t work. So then, the independence of the states will come back and it doesnâ??t mean that youâ??ll be un-American to even contemplate what might have to be done once the dollar crashes.

While this video was originally recorded on 4/19/2009, Ron Paul spokeswoman Rachel Mills confirmed earlier today (11/13/2012) that Ron Paul â??feels the same nowâ?? about secession as he did in this video.

I know you and I have a regrettable history which I would very much like to not be the case, but putting that aside for the moment. You can’t possibly believe that even on state will successfully secede from the union? Even if 100% of her citizens supported it?

Jeaton you’re freakin’ hilarious and delusional posting that shit!! Those freakin’ numbers
are so tiny compared to the general population not wanting to secede it’s all a fart in a hurricane, and you think it’s legit??..aaaAAAAAAAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good Luck getting a WHOLE New Separate Texas Military and Higher Taxes to build one,
AHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good luck being self sufficient in “TEJAS” AMIGO, who gonna be the Face on the New
Texas Currency, Mattthew McConaughey?
Oh Man, you, you, you REALLY made my, my, my, DAY AAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

OOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEE…WHAT A DAY!!!..OOOOOO LORDY LORDY WHAT A HOOT!!

[quote]Karado wrote:
Jeaton you’re freakin’ hilarious and delusional posting that shit!! Those freakin’ numbers
are so tiny compared to the general population not wanting to secede it’s all a fart in a hurricane, and you it’s gonna think it’s legit??..aaaAAAAAAAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good Luck getting a WHOLE New Separate Texas Military and Higher Taxes to build one,
AHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good luck being self sufficient in “TEJAS” AMIGO!
Oh Man, you, you, you REALLY made my, my, my, DAY AAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

OOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEE…WHAT A DAY!!!..OOOOOO LORDY LORDY WHAT A DAY!!

I get the feeling that a similar sentiment happened back when the Revolutionary War happened…

“You guys ain’t gonna leave England, no way, you’re crazy…”
[/quote]

The first rule of secession? Don’t talk about secession.

Secession is the height of jackassery, especially coming from Texas “Hey can we have some of that federal disaster aid money please?”. Sheer lunacy.

There are 25 million people in TX. wonder how it would stack up in an open election

Go for it, gonna get gobbled up by Mexico feel what it’s like to be an illegal immigrant on land you grew up on.

I wish the people wishing to secede would just get the fuck out. The left did the same thing in 04. We re-elect Bush and I’m moving to Canada. Time to put your money where your mouth is guys, I’ll help you pack.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know you and I have a regrettable history which I would very much like to not be the case, but putting that aside for the moment. You can’t possibly believe that even on state will successfully secede from the union? Even if 100% of her citizens supported it?[/quote]

No, I am not for it. I should have taken a moment to set it up better. It had simply come to my attention the sheer numbers of requests for succession coming from all over the country. I thought it interesting and simply wanted to open a discussion.

I live in Tennessee, not Texas, but I did live in TX for about 10 years. Surprising how many people take this seriously.

The basic question is, however, do I think that a state has the right to secession. The answer is absolutely. When and if the federal gov’t oversteps its in numerated powers and begins to put uncalled burdens on the state and its people they have to right to break away.

We did it. The soviet states did it. It is done all the time and cheered by the American people, that is until it is talked of from within.

A realistic threat of secession might do wonders to keep the checks and balances between the state and federal governments in line.

[quote]Karado wrote:
Jeaton you’re freakin’ hilarious and delusional posting that shit!! Those freakin’ numbers
are so tiny compared to the general population not wanting to secede it’s all a fart in a hurricane, and you think it’s legit??..aaaAAAAAAAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good Luck getting a WHOLE New Separate Texas Military and Higher Taxes to build one,
AHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good luck being self sufficient in “TEJAS” AMIGO, who gonna be the Face on the New
Texas Currency, Mattthew McConaughey?
Oh Man, you, you, you REALLY made my, my, my, DAY AAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

OOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEE…WHAT A DAY!!!..OOOOOO LORDY LORDY WHAT A HOOT!!


[/quote]

Retardo,
Is Wopner you favorite TV show? Does Kmart suck? Do you slap yourself in the head when you hear load noise or get over stimulated?
Go bury yourself in a good book, you know the ones with the pictures of the pretty ponies. This time don’t eat to crayons you halfwit.

This is dumb on the part of the Texas citizens, and dumb for anyone else who think a state can secede.

This topic gets tackled every several of months here, and we always wind up in the exact same place - the United States didn’t secede from England (we revolted, not seceded), there is no justification for secession, there is certainly no justification for seceding based on being a loser in a democratic election, and secession advocates flunked both history and civics.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
This is dumb on the part of the Texas citizens, and dumb for anyone else who think a state can secede.

This topic gets tackled every several of months here, and we always wind up in the exact same place - the United States didn’t secede from England (we revolted, not seceded), there is no justification for secession, there is certainly no justification for seceding based on being a loser in a democratic election, and secession advocates flunked both history and civics.[/quote]

It shows the failures inherent in the system when you realize that different people would be filing these petitions if Romney won. Yay for everyone being in two camps and treating politics like football!

[quote]H factor wrote:<<< It shows the failures inherent in the system when you realize that different people would be filing these petitions if Romney won. >>>[/quote]It shows what I’ve been saying forever. Which is that a privately divided populous cannot be governed in freedom. And no, government and freedom are not necessarily enemies, for all you anarchists. Only certain kinds of people posses the character and moral equipment for freedom.

The founders told us. They are disappearing in multitudes from our country and are being rapidly replaced by nanny state dependents who are slaves by definition. I know Thunderbolt agrees with what I just said, but he is not going to be seen allying himself with an insufferably arrogant, religiously diseased, ultra fundamentalist Christian whackjob such as myself.

Blame it on the parties Trib. They intentionally work to divide us. Both sides are awful. A divided populace works great for political parties. As one swings into power the other knows they will swing back eventually just as long as the country stays divided. In 04 we started to strongly dislike Republicans, then we kicked them all out in 08. In 12 we have started to strongly dislike Democrats and if the next 4 years are crap we will put the team we despised in 08 right back in. Americans are funny like that.

Both sides represent big government, just different flavors of big government. We can’t argue the issues because everything has become all R’s feel this or all D’s feel that. Confirmation bias on the internet ships thoughts to those on the extremes and has them fan out. It’s a scary situation and getting worse.

Though I’m limited government I’m no anarchist.

[quote]Karado wrote:
Jeaton you’re freakin’ hilarious and delusional posting that shit!! Those freakin’ numbers
are so tiny compared to the general population not wanting to secede it’s all a fart in a hurricane, and you think it’s legit??..aaaAAAAAAAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good Luck getting a WHOLE New Separate Texas Military and Higher Taxes to build one,
AHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Good luck being self sufficient in “TEJAS” AMIGO, who gonna be the Face on the New
Texas Currency, Mattthew McConaughey?
Oh Man, you, you, you REALLY made my, my, my, DAY AAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

OOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEE…WHAT A DAY!!!..OOOOOO LORDY LORDY WHAT A HOOT!!


[/quote]

That was probably the most incoherent post of yours yet.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
This is dumb on the part of the Texas citizens, and dumb for anyone else who think a state can secede.

This topic gets tackled every several of months here, and we always wind up in the exact same place - the United States didn’t secede from England (we revolted, not seceded), there is no justification for secession, there is certainly no justification for seceding based on being a loser in a democratic election, and secession advocates flunked both history and civics.[/quote]

Yeah well, to design a system without inbuilt breaking points is just stupid.

So, since I think your arguments are wishful thinking anyway, you might as well change your tune, because it cannot break where it must, sooner or later the whole thing will be ripped apart as a whole sooner or later.

[quote]orion wrote:

Yeah well, to design a system without inbuilt breaking points is just stupid. [/quote]

You mean like a provision for constitutional amendment and a constitutional convention?

Look, we’ve been down this road, and you don’t have any ammunition left. Give it up.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
This is dumb on the part of the Texas citizens, and dumb for anyone else who think a state can secede.

This topic gets tackled every several of months here, and we always wind up in the exact same place - the United States didn’t secede from England (we revolted, not seceded), there is no justification for secession, there is certainly no justification for seceding based on being a loser in a democratic election, and secession advocates flunked both history and civics.[/quote]

Yes X 1000. I’m from Texas and it absolutely makes my blood boil when people talk about this. Almost all of those who choose to express their stupidity on the topic still believe that Texas has the option to secede in its Constitution. A complete fallacy.

Good Ol’ Boy Jeaton Typed feverishly:
“Retardo,
Is Wopner you favorite TV show? Does Kmart suck? Do you slap yourself in the head when you hear load noise or get over stimulated?”

“Rain Man” references eh? First of of all, it’s not “load noise”. Autism is a serious health issue
affecting millions of parents, and the challenges involved in raising these wonderful kids
is an everyday labor of love to all involved.
You as a Born Again Christian should not be making insensitive comparisons to what I post
here, and those who didn’t have any choice in what their Condition was at Birth.
The fact that you were referencing a film here is not the point here and you know it.
How dare you sir, get on your knees right this second and ask for forgiveness, and hope
that no one in your familiy ever gets stricken with it.

Oh and by the way…DADGUMMIT I loves me the K MART, yessireeee They got some good
ol’ Boys workin’ there that give me more AYYYTENTION that them Stuck-UP A-holes over
at Neiman Marcus…WAL MART is alright too, but them Obese Cart Riders with their
Big Butts hangin’ over the Seats is DIS-Gusting and those fat fucks are always
in my way.
I heard one of them FART on one of those things and they immediately propelled 10 feet down aisle,
Yessireee Mister, That Stink cleared out The Sporting Goods section for a good half hour.
YEEEEEEHAA!

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Yeah well, to design a system without inbuilt breaking points is just stupid. [/quote]

You mean like a provision for constitutional amendment and a constitutional convention?

Look, we’ve been down this road, and you don’t have any ammunition left. Give it up.[/quote]

You dont get it do you?

The representatives of the states where promised that they could bail out at any time.

You think they would have consented to a treaty that made them the federal governments bitch?

This is the vibe that you get from their writings?

Well, go on then and have it as bloody as it apparently has to get.

Its on people like you, you know?