JF - not sure how serious you are, but no one (with a clue) is acting like hormones don’t matter.
And by the same token, it’s silly to pretend that CICO & IIFYM aren’t simple and effective tools for fat loss progress.
and for weight loss CICO obviously doesn’t work in the long-term, the success rate is atrocious, the body will always win… [/quote]
Also, you’re cherry-picking contexts here. No doubt the long-term success rate is atrocious in SEDENTARY, UNTRAINED individuals. But how about those who DO train regularly, time their carbs intake appropriately, scheduled periodic re-feeds, you see where I’m goin with this…
Let me put it this way. For 99% of the people on this forum, worrying about their macros is keeping them from their goals. Unless someone is stepping on stage, the difference between them eating say 250g protein everyday and 200g won’t make a shit of difference in life.
In fact, if they just loosened up, adopting some basic eating strategies of what bigger guys do, they would be better off and spend less time spinning their wheels. The reverse would be true for fat loss.
Now, someone trying to get to 4% body fat, that is likely another story.
I guess my main point though, is in relation to the general public looking to just be healthier and lose some weight.