EyeDentist, How Do You Train?

If your gym did not have any calf-specific equipment, how would you approach calf training?

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
If your gym did not have any calf-specific equipment, how would you approach calf training?[/quote]

If you saw my calves, you’d probably withdraw the question. A couple of conversations over the years with my college-age son will tell the tale.

Convo 1: A few years ago…

Me: Son, how would you describe my calves?
Son: Small and freakishly well-defined.

+++++++++++++

Convo 2: About one year ago…

I had made my mind up–I WILL get bigger calves! So I went to war, employing every arrow in my quiver–high frequency, high-rep pump work, heavy-weight strength work, static stretching, drop sets, etc. This was all done while my son was away at school. Upon his return home for the winter break, the following exchange took place…

Me (hopefully, expectantly): Son, I’ve been KILLING calves while you were away last semester. Do they look any bigger?
Son (matter-of-factly): No.

+++++++++++++++

But to answer your question: I would do one-legged standing calf raises: Slow, pause at the top, deep stretch at the bottom. High reps–make 'em scream.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
If your gym did not have any calf-specific equipment, how would you approach calf training?[/quote]

But to answer your question: I would do one-legged standing calf raises: Slow, pause at the top, deep stretch at the bottom. High reps–make 'em scream.[/quote]

I am by no means on EyeDentist’s level physically, however, one workout that has been particularly beneficial for myself in this regard, is hitting all aspects of the calves in the same workout, combining both slow and fast raises. Just DB Calf raises, 15 reps slow, pause at the top, deep stretch at the bottom (as ED suggested), then directly into 10-15 fast reps (depending on how they’re feeling, weight, etc.), still trying to hit the ‘peak and valley’ (though not as thoroughly obviously). I’d do this for 5-6 sets (usually as part of a normal circuit-type routine), starting neutral, then outer, then inner foot placement, then another outer, finishing with a neutral stance (burning out on the last bit of fast reps). If I do 6 sets it’s inner, outer, neutral, inner, outer, neutral (same burnout). This creates an awesome pump in all aspects of the calves, doesn’t require calf specific machines, and also leaves them screaming!

Just my $.02 :slight_smile:

First, let me say that I love this thread. I stumbled upon it a couple of months back and found it to be very valuable. I’m 57 and, like you EyeDentist, have been changing my workouts to reduce stress on tendons and joints in an effort to stay injury free.

On the subject of calves. They are largely genetic you can thank or curse your parents for what you started with. I have found that heavy barbell calf raises, seated calf raises and Donkey calf raises can help. As others have suggested, full range of motion, varied angles (pidgeon, duck and neutral) work them the best. I generally do 8-10 sets of 15-20 reps.

Not sure if I can post this link or not, but here are mine: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[quote]rdcrdrvr wrote:
First, let me say that I love this thread. I stumbled upon it a couple of months back and found it to be very valuable. I’m 57 and, like you EyeDentist, have been changing my workouts to reduce stress on tendons and joints in an effort to stay injury free.

On the subject of calves. They are largely genetic you can thank or curse your parents for what you started with. I have found that heavy barbell calf raises, seated calf raises and Donkey calf raises can help. As others have suggested, full range of motion, varied angles (pidgeon, duck and neutral) work them the best. I generally do 8-10 sets of 15-20 reps.

Not sure if I can post this link or not, but here are mine: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
[/quote]

Thanks rdcrdrvr. Glad you’ve enjoyed the thread.

I agree, genetics seems to play a huge role in calf development. (My Grandpa Ostrich reportedly had the same problem as me.)

Nice calves, BTW. Keep up the good work.

If we are inheriting things I would prefer a trust fund and not calves…just saying.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
…Here’s hoping specs help her enjoy life all the more. Would love to hear whether you think they do.[/quote]

We think the glasses are a big hit. When she first saw herself in the mirror with them on at the optical shop, she broke out into a huge smile. So cute. More importantly, she seems more alert and engaged in what’s going on. She catnaps frequently throughout the day and she seems to be doing that less. I assume everything’s less boring now that she can see more clearly. All good. We ordered a croakie strap to help keep them snug since she lacks the manual dexterity to push them back up when they slip.

End threadjack. Thank you!

I would brag about how I never train calves… But you’ve heard it before.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
…Here’s hoping specs help her enjoy life all the more. Would love to hear whether you think they do.[/quote]

We think the glasses are a big hit. When she first saw herself in the mirror with them on at the optical shop, she broke out into a huge smile. So cute. More importantly, she seems more alert and engaged in what’s going on. She catnaps frequently throughout the day and she seems to be doing that less. I assume everything’s less boring now that she can see more clearly. All good. We ordered a croakie strap to help keep them snug since she lacks the manual dexterity to push them back up when they slip.

End threadjack. Thank you!

I would brag about how I never train calves… But you’ve heard it before.

    [/quote]

Glad she’s enjoying her specs–they can make a huge difference in how one sees the world (literally and figuratively). And props to her eye dentist for going the extra mile and refracting her.

On another subject–no more calf-shaming!

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
…Here’s hoping specs help her enjoy life all the more. Would love to hear whether you think they do.[/quote]

We think the glasses are a big hit. When she first saw herself in the mirror with them on at the optical shop, she broke out into a huge smile. So cute. More importantly, she seems more alert and engaged in what’s going on. She catnaps frequently throughout the day and she seems to be doing that less. I assume everything’s less boring now that she can see more clearly. All good. We ordered a croakie strap to help keep them snug since she lacks the manual dexterity to push them back up when they slip.

End threadjack. Thank you!

I would brag about how I never train calves… But you’ve heard it before.

    [/quote]

Glad she’s enjoying her specs–they can make a huge difference in how one sees the world (literally and figuratively). And props to her eye dentist for going the extra mile and refracting her.

On another subject–no more calf-shaming!
[/quote]

Maybe of interest to you or your medical residents. We found sort of a gap in the system. When these really disabled kids go to the pediatrician for an annual exam, they can’t take the vision screening. The nurse will ask the family if they have any concerns. If the family says, “No, She can see and hear” then they they will likely not be referred to a specialist. We’d had her vision tested when she was little a couple of times, but it had been several years. She’s 17, and her last ophthalmologist visit was 7 years ago when she was 10.

The thing is, these kids often have a lot of other more pressing issues going on so it’s easy to not address something that isn’t sending you to the hospital. I just feel terrible. I’m going to let her pediatrician’s office know so hopefully they can be more aware.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
…Here’s hoping specs help her enjoy life all the more. Would love to hear whether you think they do.[/quote]

We think the glasses are a big hit. When she first saw herself in the mirror with them on at the optical shop, she broke out into a huge smile. So cute. More importantly, she seems more alert and engaged in what’s going on. She catnaps frequently throughout the day and she seems to be doing that less. I assume everything’s less boring now that she can see more clearly. All good. We ordered a croakie strap to help keep them snug since she lacks the manual dexterity to push them back up when they slip.

End threadjack. Thank you!

I would brag about how I never train calves… But you’ve heard it before.

    [/quote]

Glad she’s enjoying her specs–they can make a huge difference in how one sees the world (literally and figuratively). And props to her eye dentist for going the extra mile and refracting her.

On another subject–no more calf-shaming!
[/quote]

Oh, one more thing about kids and eyes -

Maybe of interest to you or your medical residents. We found sort of a gap in the system. When these really disabled kids go to the pediatrician for an annual exam, they can’t take the vision screening. The nurse will ask the family if they have any concerns. If the family says, “No, She can see and hear” then they they will likely not be referred to a specialist. We’d had her vision tested when she was little a couple of times, but it had been several years. She’s 17, and her last ophthalmologist visit was 7 years ago when she was 10. The thing is, these kids often have a lot of other more pressing issues going on so it’s easy to not address something that isn’t sending you to the hospital. I just feel terrible. I’m going to let her pediatrician’s office know so hopefully they can be more aware.
[/quote]

Good on you for doing that. We (medical subspecialists) are ready, willing and able to contribute to the care of special-needs individuals; we just need the primary-care docs to refer them to us. Many has been the time we (my resident and I) have taken such an individual to the operating room to perform an EUA–exam under anesthesia–during which we carefully evaluate every aspect of their ocular status, including refraction (it might surprise you to learn that we can accurately refract someone while they’re unconscious).

This excellent thread needs a bump. How’s training EyeDentist? Any tweaks or developments?

Hi Minus, thanks for the bump. I’ll drop an update after my orthopedist appt today. (How’s that for a teaser?)

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Hi Minus, thanks for the bump. I’ll drop an update after my orthopedist appt today. (How’s that for a teaser?)[/quote]

Hope you’re ok!

Thanks furo!

So as for my saga…

Last Fall, I determined to pick up a little strength on Chest. To accomplish this, I decided to try a s-l-o-w progressive overload program on Smith machine (slight) declines. So after my usual high-rep activation work, I would do 4 sets of 8 reps on the Smith, followed by a single set incorporating intensification techniques (rest-pause, drop sets, etc). I started at a weight I could easily handle, and added 5# (total; not per side) to the bar every workout (ie, every 4th day). For the first six-or-so workouts, everything was going just fine…but starting after the seventh workout, I would have a little pain in my right shoulder the day after. No big deal. But as the weight continued to increase, the pain would be too, and it would last a little longer. After a time I realized I was courting injury, and should quit pressing my luck (if you’ll pardon the expression). So I determined I would do just ONE MORE workout, and then change things up. That last workout was a real grinder, but I gritted my teeth and got every rep.

The next day, I couldn’t lift my arm.

OK, I thought, no big deal–I’ll take a few days off; it’ll get better.

Nope.

OK, I’ll just work around it. Unfortunately, it was impacting far more than pressing. And it wasn’t getting any better.

After a month I went to see my orthopod (the guy who re-attached my quad). He took plain films and said “Arthritis–sucks to be you. Lift light, if at all.” He injected a little steroid into the posterior aspect of the shoulder and sent me on my way.

A month later I was no better, so I went back. He recommended MRI, which revealed arthritis (no surprise there), along with significant acromion impingement and bursitis. Some wear-and-tear on the rotator cuff (with a possible old posterior tear), but nothing too bad. He gave me a subacromial steroid injection–not fun, but BOY did it help (for a while).

Going forward, the only chance for definitive treatment is arthroscopic subacromial decompression. However, he is a little reluctant to do this, as he feels the concomitant shoulder arthritis reduces the odds of surgical success. We are also considering viscosupplementation; ie, hyaluronic acid injections. He is in no particular hurry to try either.

Meanwhile, I’m in shoulder-pain limbo.

I’m sure many of y’all have been in this limbo. The pain is not terrible (unless I move wrong), and it’s usually not constant, but it’s putting a severel damper on both the exercises I can perform and the weights I can use. (Not to mention the yogi-like contortions I have to go through every time I don or doff a shirt.) Speaking of exercises…

To date, I have found only one Chest movement I can do–HS upper-chest ‘side-saddle’ presses, and only in the contracted position. (I have to use my left hand to lift the right handle into position.) My beloved lateral raises are out as well. Further, on the movements I can perform, I have to keep the weights very VERY light.

Given the restrictions I was facing, I decided now would be a good time to try High Frequency lifting, done in TUT style. After weeks of tweaking exercises, sets, reps, etc, what I’ve settled upon is as follows:

Schedule:
Day 1: Upper Body
Day 2: Core, run x 40 minutes
Day 3: Upper Body
Day 4: Core, HIIT, Legs

The Upper Body workout consists of the following exercises. Unless otherwise noted, the ROM for every rep is limited to the contracted position.

  1. Smith machine wide-grip Haney rows: 75 reps, 50 reps, 25 reps
  2. HS sidesaddle upper chest press: 75, 50, 25
  3. Cable rear delt pulls: 3 sets of 20 reps
  4. Cable lateral delt pulls: 3 sets, 20 reps (the ROM on these is the bottom third; ie, my hand starts in front of my thigh, then abducts to just short of halfway up)
  5. Underhand lat pulldowns: 75, 50, 25
  6. Occluded triceps pushdowns alternated with occluded cable curls: 75, 50, 25 each
  7. Triceps pushdowns: 3 sets of 20
  8. Triceps DB stretchers: 2 sets of near AMRAP (these are done on a slight decline with my head hanging off the bench. Basically, they are skullcrushers with an emphasis on the stretched portion of the movement)
  9. DB reverse cruls/hammer curls: 2 sets of near AMRAP
  10. Calf extensions: 75, 50, 25

The Core work consists of sets of 30 hyperextensions (staying in the glute-flexed portion of the ROM) alternated as quickly as possible with 100 crunches, 10 sets of each. Takes ~20 minutes.

The HIIT work is done on the Stepmill–warm up, six 30-s intervals at the highest setting (#humblebrag), cooldown. Also takes about 20 minutes.

The Leg workout is:

  1. Quad extension peaks: 75, 50, 25 (alternated with)
  2. Lying leg curl peaks: 75, 50, 25
  3. Leg press: 75, 50, 25

As for how it’s working for me, here’s a recent pic. I would point out that taking a decent progress selfie requires the subject do three things at once: 1) flex; 2) hit the button on the camera, and 3) smile naturally. I can manage only two of three.

[photo]40854[/photo]

Well, it sounds bad, but you are looking great. Way to find creative ways to work around it. Awkward selfies acceptable here.

Seriously, so sorry to hear about the shoulder trouble.

I HATE it when you have more than one option, and it isn’t clear which is best or if either will work. There is a lot more guessing to medicine that I’d imagined. Surgery, injections, both, neither, maybe… You want to hear “Do this. It will fix it. Move on.” :slight_smile:

You probably know this from my log, but I also have an easily irritated right shoulder. I’m OK if I stay away from the OHP, am REALLY careful when pressing on an incline, really keep my elbows in when I flat bench, and be careful about my form when doing cleans. Sound familiar? I should probably have it looked at. Ugh. I’m not sure I really want to know.

Your shoulders and arms look bigger than your avi pic, great work.

I’m sorry about your shoulder, but if there’s anyone here who can design a successful plan to work around it, it’s you. I have all the confidence you’ll be better than ever 6 months from now.

So which 2 of the 3 did ya manage? :slight_smile: Just kidding, you’re looking great and believe it or not but you are motivation for myself to keep at it!
Bummer about the shoulder, Doc cleaned up my arthritis when taking care of a spur, MUCH better now. Here’s to a quick and complete recovery!

Thanks guys/gals for the kind and supportive words.

Power, you’re right about the frustration that accrues with the inherent uncertainty vis a vis which treatment option would be optimal. I have been on the other side of such discussions many times, so I can sympathize with my orthopod’s dilemma. As much as I would like for him to make a declaration of the One Best Treatment Plan, I understand his reluctance/inability to do so. At any rate, I will definitely be putting off surgery for the time being. As for viscosupplementation, he is checking with my insurance co to see if they will cover the procedure. His experience is ins cos usually say ‘no,’ so if I go that route, more than likely it will be out-of-pocket. Which adds a whole 'nother layer to the medical-decision-making process…

Dr. P, thanks for commenting on the arms/shoulders. You may have noticed that even my ad hoc, workaround workout is strongly delt-biased, in keeping with my lifelong goal of trying to create the illusion of having clavicles.

scoots, that was pretty funny, although in retrospect I totally set myself up for it!

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Thanks guys/gals for the kind and supportive words.

Power, you’re right about the frustration that accrues with the inherent uncertainty vis a vis which treatment option would be optimal. I have been on the other side of such discussions many times, so I can sympathize with my orthopod’s dilemma. As much as I would like for him to make a declaration of the One Best Treatment Plan, I understand his reluctance/inability to do so. At any rate, I will definitely be putting off surgery for the time being. As for viscosupplementation, he is checking with my insurance co to see if they will cover the procedure. His experience is ins cos usually say ‘no,’ so if I go that route, more than likely it will be out-of-pocket. Which adds a whole 'nother layer to the medical-decision-making process…

[/quote]

You need to find an ortho who has cataracts or something so you can do a trade, although if you find that person I suggest fixing his eyes BEFORE he goes to work on you. :wink:

I just wanted to tell you, I’m amazed that you’ve done so well with your chest with only one move in your current rotation - and a partial move at that. Really, just phenomenal.

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Thanks guys/gals for the kind and supportive words.

Power, you’re right about the frustration that accrues with the inherent uncertainty vis a vis which treatment option would be optimal. I have been on the other side of such discussions many times, so I can sympathize with my orthopod’s dilemma. As much as I would like for him to make a declaration of the One Best Treatment Plan, I understand his reluctance/inability to do so. At any rate, I will definitely be putting off surgery for the time being. As for viscosupplementation, he is checking with my insurance co to see if they will cover the procedure. His experience is ins cos usually say ‘no,’ so if I go that route, more than likely it will be out-of-pocket. Which adds a whole 'nother layer to the medical-decision-making process…

[/quote]

You need to find an ortho who has cataracts or something so you can do a trade, although if you find that person I suggest fixing his eyes BEFORE he goes to work on you. :wink:

I just wanted to tell you, I’m amazed that you’ve done so well with your chest with only one move in your current rotation - and a partial move at that. Really, just phenomenal.
[/quote]

You are too kind. Thanks.

Speaking of the ortho…His office called today, and as expected, the ins co refused to cover the injection. The out-of-pocket cost would be just north of $700…Not an enormous sum, but not pocket change either (not to me, anyway). I’m going to see if I can get the ortho himself on the phone in the next few days, and try and wrangle a cost/benefit opinion out of him. Will let you know how that goes.