T Nation

Extreme Bodybuilding Documentary

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Brayton wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
do you really think it’s not a health issue for a woman to take so much AAS that she is basically a man?

I’m sure it is.

But I put it in perspective. Knocking on elite athletes for unhealthy steroid use seems so absurd when I consider the health of the masses. You know, some average armchair slob rips on an olympic athlete for using steroids or whatever, and I just want to smack the bastard because that olympic athlete/bodybuilder/whatever is still light years beyond the average joe health-wise. I’m not saying you’re that kind of guy, but that’s my take.

I see your point. I just think there’s a difference in use and abuse.[/quote]

You bring up a valid and interesting point about “abuse”. I feel that I have to admit that abuse (of steroids for example)is possible, but if your goal is extraordinary then what you consider “use” will be considered “abuse” by other’s who don’t relate to your goals. It’s such an individual thing.

I am British and Louis Theroux is an institution. His naivety and ignorance is used to great effect for caustic wit.

Gd find…this guy does a lot of these types of documentaries…I must have missed this one!!!

[quote]brian.m wrote:
since when did a 1967 chevelle ever have a “big ol 450 engine”?[/quote]

when you swapped one into it. i think i meant a 454 anyway. been a while since i was into muscle cars.

[quote]Brayton wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
because theres a difference between standing out from the norm but doing it withen “normal” contexts.

for instance taking something like musculature. its appealing to 99% of people and you can exploit that by increasing your level of it. but i think there is a very big difference (literally) between the musculature portrayed in the 70’ early 80’s versus what we have today.

when you start becoming that extreme 1% of something that is already outstanding from the basics then you have to question what is it that makes you want this.

if a woman wants to change her physique where she starts looking more masculine than even most males a red flag goes up because there is a very big difference between being individual and being that.

also i have every right to hold my own opinions. if she thinks that the only way to obtain beauty is through that extreme then there is of course an opposite view which says no, that transformation is an achievement of disfigurement and is ugly. i hold the second opinion.

i often make car analogies to bodybuilding. i look at this as the difference between musclecar drag racing and rocket fuel funnycar racing. on one hand you have something like a 67 Chevelle with big ol 450 engine and that thing is heavy, loud and it means business. but its a still a car, yea it can kick your cars ass but when you see it down the street you know that is just a really fast really badass car.

then you have something like the funnycar. it has 4 wheels and a motor but its not really a car anymore. it can barely turn, its just a chassis and a top and its got a roll cage and wheelie bar, and just goes down the line in 4 seconds. its not really the same thing as a car anymore its just a dragracer and thats all it does.

i hope you understand the point im making that you can still achieve a large amount of muscle mass and stand out from the crowd while still being part of “the crowd” (society) without overdoing it.

That’s right. Don’t be exceptional because that will distance yourself from “the crowd”.

Nobody will knock you for having personal opinions regarding aesthetics, but to say that people should limit their own desires to conform to your limited aesthetic conception is riduclous and bad for the community at large.[/quote]

lol. are you serious? how do you get “limiting” yourself from me saying i think its gross to be on the gratuitous amounts of steroids these females and mass monster male bodybuilders are on?

i want to be big, i want to be bigger than you. i want to compete also. does it mean just because i have those desires i have to follow in the footsteps of the mass monsters? it seems thats what youre saying and by saying so you completely negate everything you just implied about individualism because its my individual choice to think that theyre disgusting.

actually its not really a choice, its imbedded in me. as a man i find feminine qualities sexually attractive. every single thing we do in daily live is derived from instincts withen. when your basic instincts start getting warped things like thinking a woman who looks undisputedly masculine is one of them. everything on the surface says “man”. and not only is it in the jaw, brow, and voice but its amplidied 100 fold by the apperance of lots of muscles. why do 95% of men get into lifting? to pick up chicks. why do they think that muscles are going to get them chicks? because muscularity is a masculine trait which is supposed to attract females because we’re attracted to members of the opposite sex and qualities acquainted with that sex. even if i have a fetish, say really big breasts or im into gothic chicks, on the surface level theyre still very feminine.

basically those men have strong traces…hell bold outlines of homosexuality. thing is, theyre not even attracted to feminine males, theyre attracted to over-masculine females which is actually gayer because the attraction lies withen the displayed masculine traits, muscles, vocal tone, and facial structure and not girly things like spas and interior decorating and theatre as typically found in feminine oriented homosexuals.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:

lol. are you serious? how do you get “limiting” yourself from me saying i think its gross to be on the gratuitous amounts of steroids these females and mass monster male bodybuilders are on?

i want to be big, i want to be bigger than you. i want to compete also. does it mean just because i have those desires i have to follow in the footsteps of the mass monsters? it seems thats what youre saying and by saying so you completely negate everything you just implied about individualism because its my individual choice to think that theyre disgusting.

[/quote]

I may have misunderstood you or read into what you were saying. I thought that you weren’t just expressing distaste with these bodybuilders but saying that these bodybuilders are wrong to take steroids and pursue the extreme end of bodybuilding simply because they become less masculine or whatever. As you point out, our tastes and desires are an individual thing - I agree, and you’ve got the right to express that.

The whole women “becoming more masculine because they have muscle” thing that you go on to say shows that I have a different conception of what it means to be a “man”.

You comments about following your natural inclinations and instincts show that you’ve fallen victim to the naturalistic fallacy. The naturalistic fallacy describes the belief that because some behavior exists naturally, that it is right (i.e. what IS the case for me because of my genes, etc SHOULD be the case). There are certainly plenty of behaviors that are natural AND right, but one does not necessarily entail the other.

Gold’s Gym trainer (Pt. 2, about 2:05)

“Bodybuilders, to be honest with you, is not the healthiest people, OK? Their diets are terrible because they have to cut off the carbohydrates and they’re superficial strength only. They’re very weak in the core- most of them are.”

Cough.

I’m only in Part 1 and it seems very tongue in cheek and cringeworthy so far.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Gold’s Gym trainer (Pt. 2, about 2:05)

“Bodybuilders, to be honest with you, is not the healthiest people, OK? Their diets are terrible because they have to cut off the carbohydrates and they’re superficial strength only. They’re very weak in the core- most of them are.”

Cough.[/quote]

Someone ought to hurt that guy.

Tried to edit this in, but got quoted before the edit:

(Note: The bodybuilder guy-- you know, the big guy, dismisses this at about 6:00 into the video)

I’m starting to get that thigh chafing thing too and it fucking sucks…

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
do you really think it’s not a health issue for a woman to take so much AAS that she is basically a man?

x2 I have a massive respect for these women. In fact I might get a chance to sit down and talk to a female BBer pretty soon. Someone from work is friends with her. Does that mean I think it’s attractive or desireable? no. Do I think it’s still a work of art, the same thing I’m trying to do and it’s hella impressive. absolutely.[/quote]

I feel the same way- massive respect. I don’t want to look like that, but I am in awe of what those women do, especially considering all the hate they have to deal with for their choices.

One thing that did kinda make me raise my eyebrow a little bit was Supergirl’s husband- she picked a dumpy average dude that doesn’t even look like he exercises at all, let alone lift. Good on her for finding love and all, but I just don’t understand how someone that focused on her own physique can have no standards for her mate’s. Or conversely, how a dumpy ass man can want an extremely muscular woman but not feel the need to work out and even try to match her power in the bedroom, lol.

[quote]Clown Face wrote:
Gd find…this guy does a lot of these types of documentaries…I must have missed this one!!!

[/quote]

Yeah, I particularly liked the swingers and Thai bride ones as well. :smiley:

[quote]Brayton wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:

lol. are you serious? how do you get “limiting” yourself from me saying i think its gross to be on the gratuitous amounts of steroids these females and mass monster male bodybuilders are on?

i want to be big, i want to be bigger than you. i want to compete also. does it mean just because i have those desires i have to follow in the footsteps of the mass monsters? it seems thats what youre saying and by saying so you completely negate everything you just implied about individualism because its my individual choice to think that theyre disgusting.

I may have misunderstood you or read into what you were saying. I thought that you weren’t just expressing distaste with these bodybuilders but saying that these bodybuilders are wrong to take steroids and pursue the extreme end of bodybuilding simply because they become less masculine or whatever. As you point out, our tastes and desires are an individual thing - I agree, and you’ve got the right to express that.

The whole women “becoming more masculine because they have muscle” thing that you go on to say shows that I have a different conception of what it means to be a “man”.

You comments about following your natural inclinations and instincts show that you’ve fallen victim to the naturalistic fallacy. The naturalistic fallacy describes the belief that because some behavior exists naturally, that it is right (i.e. what IS the case for me because of my genes, etc SHOULD be the case). There are certainly plenty of behaviors that are natural AND right, but one does not necessarily entail the other.

[/quote]

i dont know what a naturalist is, i dont allign myself with any doctrines of thought, i think things on my own based off of experience and a deep assertion withen myself as to why i do the things i do and i dont cover it up i look at it for what it is.

as far as “natural” goes, it isnt natural to be a man attracted to another man. the impression these “women” give off isnt that of a woman, its that of a man. im willing to be if we gave a catscan and exposed pictures of men or things associated with masculinity and pictures of these bodybuilding women the same reactions would occur.

[quote]theAnj wrote:

One thing that did kinda make me raise my eyebrow a little bit was Supergirl’s husband- she picked a dumpy average dude that doesn’t even look like he exercises at all, let alone lift. Good on her for finding love and all, but I just don’t understand how someone that focused on her own physique can have no standards for her mate’s. Or conversely, how a dumpy ass man can want an extremely muscular woman but not feel the need to work out and even try to match her power in the bedroom, lol. [/quote]

i guess you overlooked my earlier posts?

no man who in the right mind who lifts for size, im talking someone you know who lifts with clothes on in the middle of winter, basically someone whos in really good shape by anyone’s standards. alright so as i was saying, no one in that condition is going to want a woman like that.

why? because the reason they lift is the same reason 99% of guys lift, to impress chicks. they, me, we, want a girl with a nice figure who acts the way a is “supposed” to act. this is because since we’re doing the things we associate with classic masculinity therefore we are looking for classic femininity.

theeeeeeerefore, he doesnt associate himself with classical masulinity because if he DID that would mean he would want classical femininity which is NOT what she exhibits.

/thesis paper.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Gold’s Gym trainer (Pt. 2, about 2:05)

“Bodybuilders, to be honest with you, is not the healthiest people, OK? Their diets are terrible because they have to cut off the carbohydrates and they’re superficial strength only. They’re very weak in the core- most of them are.”

Cough.[/quote]

MOST of them are, is what he said.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Gold’s Gym trainer (Pt. 2, about 2:05)

“Bodybuilders, to be honest with you, is not the healthiest people, OK? Their diets are terrible because they have to cut off the carbohydrates and they’re superficial strength only. They’re very weak in the core- most of them are.”

Cough.

MOST of them are, is what he said.[/quote]

agh, there are so many douche bags in that documentary!
luckily, louie theroux makes it bearable